"Looking for a PV and EV solution"

Coastalwatch

pile-o-stone wrote: »

Information on the 60 kWh battery pack.

https://electrek.co/2018/01/04/nissan-leaf-2019-specs-range-charging/

Thank you pile-o-stone I hadn't previously seen that.The article is certainly interesting, as are the discussions upon whether the sales of Leaf 18 will suffer as a result. If I'm honest then the current 2018 model is perfectly adequate for 99% of our journey requirements without the need to recharge partway there. Even if I did wait for the 2019 model then for the odd two or three long journeys a year I'd probably still need to recharge along the way or, if not, then for the journey home again. Also as I'm intending that the vast majority of our charging would come from PV while in the drive then the problem with three fast charges in a row is highly unlikely to happen.
The options are still open for us either way as I see at present.:cool:

silverwhistle

If you look at Ev specific forums you'll find quite long threads (!) on this charging issue.

Personally I fancy an Ioniq but that is some years away, and I'd have to sort out hard standing for parking and a dropped kerb in addition to all the other costs. The solar panels have been in place for years but they come out quite cheaply in the scheme of things!

Coastalwatch

I've taken the plunge and ordered our PV array, all 26 panels 7.67kwp. That's providing our local DNO approve. A date has been set for the installation in two weeks time so can only assume my installers are quietly confident of receiving approval. In the intervening period I've continued searching for that illusive V2H solution in order to make full use of Solar energy and the storage capacity of an EV. Sadly it doesn't appear to be on the horizon over here other than through home battery storage. I have to agree with others that it is just not cost effective currently i.e.4.2kwh xStorage at circa £4k or 6.5kwh Tesla 1 at £4.5 both requiring the addition of installation plus VAT. The latter being at either 5% or 20% apparently.
When test driving the new Leaf we'd almost got to the point of ordering an Accenta with optional extras of Parking sensors and Metallic paint.
Even with an EV mostly sitting on the drive I can see that an additional home battery would be of benefit and have been wrestling with how I could possibly justify the expense. The probable answer is I cannot. However, if I settled for the basic model of the Leaf instead of the Acenta then about £3k would be released to put towards a home battery installation. Maybe I'm kidding myself and it may seem a strange way of trying to settle matters. Given the choice of either a slightly higher spec car or a home battery installation, which I wonder, returns the best value?

Martyn1981

May I bore you with some personal thoughts?

Too late, here I go.

From an environmental point of view, batts can shift low carbon leccy into the high carbon period (evening peak) so in the medium/long term, they are an environmental benefit.

But, at the moment, we do not have too much RE generation at any one time, so PV consumed or exported from a house to the neighbours will directly reduce the amount of gas generation in the country.

So whilst PV is a good thing today, and even 8yrs ago when the FiT was launched, as it provides an environmental benefit, the argument for storage is a bit weaker.

Now for the economic side - PV needed support from the wealthier nations, to make it viable for all, including the poorer nations that couldn't afford subsidies. The very same could be said about batts, but whereas PV sat, relatively un-economical for abot 50yrs, batts are progressing naturally through electronic device rollout and now massive deployment of EV's and large scale batts.

Also, batt prices (domestic storage) are still falling, and prices over the next 5yrs will outweigh any savings. That's a wait till it gets better scenario that has many weaknesses, but in this particular instance is OK as the large scale deployment of batts is assured, even if you and I don't take part.

So whilst buying a batt sounds fun, and I'm really keen to get started, I personally feel that in this case economics trump environmental issues. [Not an argument I'm particularly comfortable with, but I think on this occasion is fair.]

That's not a criticism of early adopters, we need them of course to help develop a supply chain and install industry, I'm just trying to justify the environmental argument to allow us to fall back on the economic argument for now.


Or the short answer - Nothing wrong with sitting back and waiting for now.

Ectophile

Have Nissan never heard of the Osborne Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect)?

Every year they tell us that next year's model will be better than this year's. So what reason do I have for buying this year's one?

Coastalwatch

Not boring at all. Thanks for bringing some constructive logic to bear. It certainly makes sense, I guess I just need to apply a smidgeon of patience. The saving of £180 or so a year is hardly a sound basis for spending £6k however I try to justify it.
On the other hand, I could apply some of the £3k saving towards ASHP by adding a second indoor unit to the bedroom. Probably as much for cooling on hot summer nights as opposed to any form of heating.

Thanks for the reality check.

silverwhistle

I see you're progressing well. I haven't looked at all the details as I'm not yet near buying an EV, but there is something called a Zappi which diverts spare Pv power to your EV. If you haven't already seen this via the EV forums it might be worth a look.

Coastalwatch

Well, at close of play today we should have a fully functional PV array in place. The installation engineer arrived yesterday morning. Following a quick reccie he said he would get on with fixing the anchor points in preparation for the arrival of the panels later that day and the Electricians arrival the next(today). They all duly arrived this morning, explained the layout of all necessary equipment alongside the consumer unit in the garage together with the routing of cables etc. Apparently the solar panels had been delayed but were due for delivery later in the morning. The Inverter, a second consumer unit, a meter, a DC and two AC isolation switches were all installed and connections made to all the optimisers.
Unfortunately the only thing missing is the Solar panels, understood to be on the back of the delivery lorry parked up somewhere with the driver out of his allowed driving hours!
Rather frustrating for all concerned so just keeping fingers crossed they arrive in good time in the morning to allow for a successful completion tomorrow!

frozen_wastes

I'm reading this post with interest, as my eventual plan will be to replace my Diesel with an EV (next 3 years or so, so my thought is that I want to generate as much juice as I have space for.


I've been measuring up on my roof and I'm able to get 28 LG NeON2 panels on my roof in a 4x4 configuration facing SSW and a 4x3 config facing ESE.


That's 9.24kWP (330W per panel)! That's about 10MWH annually, or about 37000miles in a Tesla Model 3. That's how I think of such numbers!


So this DNO restriction at 3.68kWP interests me. Is the restriction on the power **exported** through their meter, or the *generating capacity* of the system (i.e. The DNO doesn't care if it's consumed on site, or even if the generating capacity is not running at all - they only care if there's an electrical connection to their grid).


I've got a few design ideas to get round this system. One is to have a single inverter between the DC and AC networks limited to 3.68kWP. Then I could have heavy consumers on the DC network, such as a battery or DC car charger.


I know, there's no FIT metering with that solution, but FIT's will disappear by the time I get a PV array commissioned on my roof so that's eventually going to be a non issue.


The other thought is a split system - 3.68kwP grid connect on one array, and an Islanded system on the other. The thought in my mind is that it should be possible to have a three way automatic switch that swaps your house consumer unit between the grid connection and your islanded system. Technically you wouldn't be connected to the grid - the switch can be thrown at the 0 Volt crossover as soon as it detects that their's enough juice being generated by the Islanded array to supply the load.


But either way, I think the amount being charged to get DNO permission for connecting large PV arrays will be such that technical workarounds will end up being more cost effective.

Coastalwatch

Coastalwatch wrote: »

Well, at close of play today we should have a fully functional PV array in place. The installation engineer arrived yesterday morning. Following a quick reccie he said he would get on with fixing the anchor points in preparation for the arrival of the panels later that day and the Electricians arrival the next(today). They all duly arrived this morning, explained the layout of all necessary equipment alongside the consumer unit in the garage together with the routing of cables etc. Apparently the solar panels had been delayed but were due for delivery later in the morning. The Inverter, a second consumer unit, a meter, a DC and two AC isolation switches were all installed and connections made to all the optimisers.
Unfortunately the only thing missing is the Solar panels, understood to be on the back of the delivery lorry parked up somewhere with the driver out of his allowed driving hours!
Rather frustrating for all concerned so just keeping fingers crossed they arrive in good time in the morning to allow for a successful completion tomorrow!

Thankfully the panels arrived around 8am, one sealed pallet load weighing 600kg, followed by the installation engineer some twenty minutes later. By mid day the panels were all in place with optimisers connected.

As he switched on it was certainly interesting watching the LCD display and seeing the pairing take place between the system and each of the thirty panels installed. Generation began almost immediately, fluctuating considerably as clouds passed across the otherwise blue sky. Output figures ranged from 970w to 5990w. All seemed to be working as it should, so the Leccy's must have done a good job with the cabling and Inverter etc the day before when setting it all in place.

With the system up and running it just left the birdproofing to fit around the perimeter of the array and all would be complete. The engineer must even have scanned a picture of the array back to the office with the individual panel ID's on for them to add to their system and hence forward to SolarEdge, for later that afternoon I'd received an email from SE inviting me to log on to the system, thus enabling me to monitor it's output. By dusk, 18kwh had been added to the generation Meter while the Utility meter incremented by a single kwh in the same period.

I know it's early days, but after a frustrating day previously, the system is working faultlessly, apart from those annoying clouds that will persist in blotting out the sun.

As I write this the array has produced 38.5kwh so far today. Now I'm not entirely sure what constitutes an Hawaii, but with an 8.85kwp array I suspect that another 6kwh or so might see us achieve one!

So, phase one is complete just the EV, charge point, ASHP & Storage to sort now. Thanks to everyone who contributed to my education on this intriguing subject. It would have been a nightmare without your knowledgeable advice. :T:A