Energy Charging

House_Martin

lg_20187 wrote: »

Its an old style meter with a keypad and i use a card to purchase electric

one thing i didnt ask was if there was any physical evidence on the box that it was tampered - thats something il need to find out. -eg the seal you mentioned.

as nothing physical was mentioned in the accusation - just a digital report

Are you in Northern Ireland, or using a Secure Liberty meter. That is the only meter using a keypad. They are quite new and usually working as smart meters unless they have been switched dumb by moving to another supplier.
When its in smart prepayment or credit mode it has error codes which should indicate tampering of the lower cover.
Personally in the 4 or 5 years I ve seen these meters around I have only ever found one tampered . People tend not to mess with these meters compared to the vast numbers fiddling electric prepay key meters in the UK.
Does the meter look to have the wire seal at the bottom missing where someone has got into the 4 cables entering the bottom of the meter. Can also see the screw which holds the lower cover on to be marked by ill fitting screwdrivers.If all looks OK then unless someone has gone to the trouble using a new seal bought off Ebay then the meter is most probably untouched .
Suppliers virtually never prosecute nowadays for meter tampering, I wish they would, they just simply issue another bill.
Its nice to know that a supplier is taking notice of an error code returning but simply sending off a digital report is utterly useless.OP, if your meter appears to be untouched you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
If someone had been wiring the meter up to bypass it then its in danger of catching fire . They should have had a RPU man round pronto knocking hard on the door to disable a dangerous meter.
I can believe thats how the suppliers would work though because its cheaper for them to issue a report and hope the transgressors disable the bypass themselves. They would like to automate everything, even fiddling meters if it saves them money

lg_20187

I am in Northern Irelad Yes, and they replaced my meter so i have no idea if there are seals broken or any damage to the box, i just assumed as they are replacing all meters this was normal procedure, and let them in to change it

i had nothing to hide so i contacted them and arranged a replacement date whenever they could do it.
so the meter thats in now is an apparrent anti magnetic meter, which are being replaced throughout northern ireland,

The digital report is apparrently hard evidence andthey are now talking about small claims court - something i know nothing about, and im scared now that i have to go down that route.

Can i ask if anyone knows - im moving house to try and save for a mortgage - because of this, will my credit rating be affected now? its like allmy life plans are falling apart cause of this dam thing
it has me worried sick, sleep affected, work affected due to lack of sleep, now entering a situation im not used to.

i do everything by the book, pay all my bills and on time and now iv this against me and im not sure what to do.

House_Martin

lg_20187 wrote: »

I am in Northern Irelad Yes, and they replaced my meter so i have no idea if there are seals broken or any damage to the box, i just assumed as they are replacing all meters this was normal procedure, and let them in to change it

i had nothing to hide so i contacted them and arranged a replacement date whenever they could do it.
so the meter thats in now is an apparrent anti magnetic meter, which are being replaced throughout northern ireland,

The digital report is apparrently hard evidence andthey are now talking about small claims court - something i know nothing about, and im scared now that i have to go down that route.

Can i ask if anyone knows - im moving house to try and save for a mortgage - because of this, will my credit rating be affected now? its like allmy life plans are falling apart cause of this dam thing
it has me worried sick, sleep affected, work affected due to lack of sleep, now entering a situation im not used to.

i do everything by the book, pay all my bills and on time and now iv this against me and im not sure what to do.

In Northern Ireland I believe the electric keypad meters have no connection directly with a server, they operate "semi smart " so they could nt monitor error codes on the lower cover to indicate a tamper remotely.
There can not be any hard evidence of a meter tamper without an RPU officer visiting the property. In the mainland UK a tampered gas meter has to be sent to an expert to ascertain a definite tamper.
I suspect a bit of "bluff " with this case. Suppliers dont usually turn up when presented with trips to the small claims courts when a customer decides to go down that route.Solicitors are very expensive. That is why they virtually never prosecute meter bypassing unless associated with large scale cannabis farming. In 2015 the whole of the UK only had 1500 prosecutions for meter tampering, (Liverpool coming tops with 250 ! ) even though I have seen a report of an estimated 200,000 active cannabis growers in the UK and they all bypass the electric meters. No way will you be taken to task in a criminal court of law for a supplier guessing about some sort of meter tamper.Small claims courts are used as a threat to recover money.
Over the years I have discovered many hundreds of serious bypassing and here in South Yorks not one has ever been taken to the local magistrates.In fact I have never ever even seen one go through our local magistrates.
Small claims courts are only for civil matters whereas meter tampering is strictly a criminal offence.

lg_20187

Does anyone know will this affect my credit rating?

Im going to try and keep fighting them until i get this resolved. i really dont want to go the legal ruote but their figures and statements are not adding up, which im a little suspicious about.

JStewer

lg_20187 wrote: »

Does anyone know will this affect my credit rating?...

Credit reference agencies only record details of how you conduct your credit accounts.

So if, as you say, you do everything by the book, pay all your bills and on time, etc, then that can only reflect well on your credit history file.

But if I understood you correctly, this is not even a credit account...

JStewer

lg_20187 wrote: »

...
The digital report is apparrently hard evidence andthey are now talking about small claims court - something i know nothing about, and im scared now that i have to go down that route....

What exactly are they talking to you in regards to small claims court about????
I can see nothing posted by you in this thread that would appear to fall within the jurisdiction of the small claims court.
Did you mentiuon this to the CAB, as it is surprising they would not have told you likewise.

lg_20187

At present, they are taking payments off my meter to try and recover this money i apparrently owe. Without my consent, i have tried to get them to stop this but every time i top up my meter now they take 40% of my topup. They refuse to stop taking money out of my meter due to the nature of my case.

However as i am moving out of the property, they will have to get their money in another way, and they have said they might have to settle via small claims court. I did say that if it came to it, and that i DID have to pay this, id set up a payment plan. but i will fight it and clear my name.

I understand this is not a credit account, however its a debt against my name, that i am trying to appeal, and thats why im worried about my credit file, as i am working hard to get it to a steady level. iv never been through anything like this so thats why i need advise.

CAB have just advised to write a letter, and speak to Utilities Regulator.

JStewer

lg_20187 wrote: »

At present, they are taking payments off my meter to try and recover this money i apparrently owe. Without my consent, i have tried to get them to stop this but every time i top up my meter now they take 40% of my topup. They refuse to stop taking money out of my meter due to the nature of my case.

However as i am moving out of the property, they will have to get their money in another way, and they have said they might have to settle via small claims court. I did say that if it came to it, and that i DID have to pay this, id set up a payment plan. but i will fight it and clear my name.

I understand this is not a credit account, however its a debt against my name, that i am trying to appeal, and thats why im worried about my credit file, as i am working hard to get it to a steady level. iv never been through anything like this so thats why i need advise.

CAB have just advised to write a letter, and speak to Utilities Regulator.

Oh, ok.

I was confused as you started, and continued on for most of this thread regarding an allegation you had tampered with the meter.
Is that now all sorted?

Because I would suggest to you that is far more serious than allegedly owing someone a few bob.

If it's is just the money the supplier claims you owe you wish to contest, then you need to let them know by raising a complaint and following the supplier's complaint procedure.

If you fail to do that, but simply do what they will see as a runner without repaying them, then they probably would resort to the small claims court in an attempt to secure what they believe is rightly theirs.

Obviously a CCJ against you would have a significant adverse impact in obtaining a mortgage, so best not to let matters escalate to that stage.

But as I understand it, the money the supplier claims you owe is due to a tampering of the meter. :huh:
If not, what other money do they claim you owe them

JStewer

lg_20187 wrote: »

HI - So NIElectricity own the meter but the billing company is the local companies eg...click, bugget energy, aitrticity, power ni
...

Which one of those is your supplier? :cool:

JStewer

House_Martin wrote: »

...
I suspect a bit of "bluff " with this case. Suppliers dont usually turn up when presented with trips to the small claims courts when a customer decides to go down that route.Solicitors are very expensive. That is why they virtually never prosecute meter bypassing unless associated with large scale cannabis farming. In 2015 the whole of the UK only had 1500 prosecutions for meter tampering, (Liverpool coming tops with 250 ! ) even though I have seen a report of an estimated 200,000 active cannabis growers in the UK and they all bypass the electric meters. No way will you be taken to task in a criminal court of law for a supplier guessing about some sort of meter tamper.Small claims courts are used as a threat to recover money...

I don't know where you get your data from, but this report in 2014 reported Ofgem as claiming:

Ofgem officials say the industry detects up to 25,000 cases of electricity theft each year, and estimates that up to one third of the volume of electricity stolen each year is used to power cannabis farms.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2542487/Energy-theft.html

Of course, cannabis farms tend to use significantly more electricity than the normal home, so it can safely be presumed that over 2/3rds of the cases do not involve cannabis farms.

As for the cost of prosecuting, it's peanuts to a supplier. Furthermore, when they win, they will ask the judge for costs to be awarded against the defendant, to which the judge almost invariably agrees.

Perhaps your figures come from this article?

More than 1,500 people in England and Wales were prosecuted for electricity and gas theft in 2014-15, according to the Crown Prosecution Service.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/18/energy-suppliers-share-data-to-catch-electricity-and-gas-thieves/

Of course, where the CPS prosecute, the Crown fund's all the prosecution costs initially, so it doesn't cost the supplier a dime (save for any initial investigative measures they undertake, etc)

Then when the CPS win, they will also ask for costs. Again, the judge will invariably award these against the defendant, save for where the defendant is imprisoned and has no savings etc to pay (because you cannot earn the money in prison to pay any costs). Imprisonment can be for a term of up to 5 years for such an offence.
Even if the CPS fail to recover prosecution costs, it would not fall on the victim to fund this.

A statutory surcharge may also apply to a sentence where the prosecution prove their case, irrespective of the defendant's financial position, as the judge has no discretion over this.