Euro Car Park PCN at Shorne Woods Country Parks -

MISSY_me

I just read my NTK again. In the left column after the date of issue, i have Time observed 15:35:53 and bellow Issue time: 16:17:03. Does anyone knows what it means and can I used it in my appeal to POPLA? Thanks
I also saw, they provided a photo on my vehicle of the way out from the park and is quite dark. Can I use this at any point? Thank you all!

MISSY_me

A little update: I contacted the Kent Council, as the landowner of the park, and they write to me, that they agreed with ECP for issued me a ticket and advised me to apply to POPLA. I thought as a Council Property the land is not "relevant". I,m a bit confused, to be honest!!!

nosferatu1001

If the council own it I do not believe it can be relevant land. Certainly councils have been told they CANNOT run car parks using private firms under contract law - it has to be using a PPO.

MISSY_me

So, you suggest to leave the Council alone and go with POPLA. Also, my NTK has been served 25days after the day of the alleged incident. Is this a good point to stand for. Thank you!

Fruitcake

MISSY_me wrote: »

A little update: I contacted the Kent Council, as the landowner of the park, and they write to me, that they agreed with ECP for issued me a ticket and advised me to apply to POPLA. I thought as a Council Property the land is not "relevant". I,m a bit confused, to be honest!!!

So appeal to PoPLA using all the relevant template points you will find in post 3 of the NEWBIES, plus Council owned land is Not Relevant Land using the link from the successful appeal you were given earlier.
Also quote the info here provided by the DfT undersecretary for transport.

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=4512.0

MISSY_me

Hi all, how does it sound my point for NOt Relevant land to you:

Shorne Woods Country Parks – Gravesend land is not 'relevant land' as it is already covered by statutory bylaws and so is specifically excluded from 'keeper liability' under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
Paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 4 of POFA defines “traffic authority” as meaning each of the following:

(a) the Secretary of State;
(b) the Welsh Ministers;
(c) Transport for London;
(d) the Common Council of the City of London;
(e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;
(f) a parish or community council;
(g) the Council of the Isles of Scilly.

According to this definition, Kent County Council is, therefore, a "traffic authority".

Paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 4 of POFA defines “parking place” as having the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 i.e. a place where vehicles, or vehicles of any class, may wait.

Paragraph 3(1) of Schedule 4 of POFA states that in this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than:

(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

The parking places at Shorne Woods Country Parks, having been provided by Kent County Council (a "traffic authority" as defined under Schedule 4) are therefore not relevant land by virtue of Paragraph 3 (1) (b) of Schedule 4.

As I am the registered keeper I am not legally liable as this Act does not apply on this land. I put the Operator to strict proof otherwise if they disagree with this point and would require them to show evidence including documentary proof from the Airport Authority that this land is not already covered by bylaws.
POPLA assessor Steve Macallan found in 6062356150 in September 2016, that land under statutory control cannot be considered ‘relevant land’ for the purposes of POFA 2012.
‘As the site is not located on ‘relevant land’, the operator is unable to rely on POFA 2012 in order to transfer liability to the hirer. Additionally, as I am not satisfied the appellant was the driver, I am unable to conclude that the operator issued the PCN correctly, and I must allow this appeal.’

Any comments will be helpful! Thank you

Coupon-mad

from the Airport Authority

Say what now?

Edna_Basher

MISSY_me wrote: »

Shorne Woods Country Parks !!!8211; Gravesend land is not 'relevant land' as it is already covered by statutory bylaws and so is specifically excluded from 'keeper liability' under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

There's no need to mention statutory bylaws - in fact it's unlikely that the Country Park is covered by such bylaws. Also, the POPLA case 6062356150 that you quote won't be relevant here because if I remember correctly that related to a site covered by harbour bylaws.

What counts here is that Kent County Council is a "traffic authority" as defined by POFA and so regardless of whether the land is subject to statutory control, the land is still not relevant land (according to POFA).

For wording more relevant to Kent Council's Country Parks, check out shaleman's thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5770530

MISSY_me

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Say what now?

Yes, My bad, I will correct it! I took it from another appeal and tried to adjust it to my case.
Note taken!

MISSY_me

Thank you Edna, I will edit it now the way you suggest it!