New house, boiler dead on arrival - can we claim a

Lysimache

We completed on a flat earlier this Jan. In the Property Information Form signed in mid-Dec, the vendor ticked ‘Heating system in good working order’ at 12.3.c.

When we completed in early Jan, we found the boiler wasn’t working from the start - it wouldn’t turn on. We figured it would be a simple fix so waited a few weeks before getting an engineer around.

Got a Registered Gas Engineer around today who said there was a blocked heat exchange, a leaking AAV, and he has written and signed on his gas safety record form that the boiler scaled up over a prolonged time period due to disuse. (His words - I know the vendors didn’t live in it for a while). Needs replacement, not just a quick service!

I know English law says caveat emptor, but if vendors say ‘good working order’ and sign it on the Property Information Form, surely that has some grounds? We had a survey done but surveyor obviously wasn’t a gas engineer (and I have no problem with the surveyor). We will get 3 quotes so that we can prove we are being fair re repair costs.

My queries are:

1. We didn’t get a Registered Gas Engineer around on the first day we entered as we thought it was a simple service that's needed to get it to work, given the vendors said 'good working order' - how serious is that delay? (We waited a while as we are living in rented accommodation and were sorting out other things with new place too.)

2. We will ask the Vendor to cover the cost of the engineer, installation of new boiler (£1.7k, we will look for cheaper too) etc.

Do we go through our original conveyancing solicitors for that, or is this a separate issue that may need different sort of lawyers if we find the vendors unwilling to pay?

3. We’re obviously stuck with an unheated house while we get quotes and decide which boiler to buy etc.

Is it reasonable for us to ask for something on top for days between getting this fixed and finding it out due to the fact that we have it uninhabitable for a short period while this is sorted out? E.g. claim some money for the time between us finding out this problem and getting it fixed? We can’t get a lodger in now for example as it's cold.

What would be a reasonable amount to claim - £20 per day? £30 per day? Property is £550k residential 3 bed in Zone 2 London. Rental for 3 bed is £1700pcm so £20 per day okay due to cold? Wouldn’t charge for the period before we got the engineer around as I appreciate we could’ve done that on day 1 and the delay in finding out is ours.

If this is unreasonable, say so and we won’t ask for anything for our inability to live in the house now until this is sorted. (One of us has severe asthma, we’re not just people who can’t cope with cold Januarys. And obviously we can’t have a lodger in)

Cheers for your wise advice! :money:

Browntoa

I can say that my boiler is working today but you could find it is not working when you move in

Without any official paperwork saying otherwise by a gas Safe engineer prior to your purchase you will struggle to prove anything.

daveyjp

The forms are filled out weeks before the sale completes. You say the vendors didn!!!8217;t live there for a while. If it worked when they did live there they haven!!!8217;t provided false info.

When buying do all your own surveys first.

Did your survey mention gas installations?

Did it advise you get an independent engineer have a look?

Did you do as advised?

If you asked me to pay I!!!8217;d advise you to whistle.

molerat

Why did you not get it checked before you moved in. You should have arranged with the vendor for your gas engineer and electrician to have access to check the systems. Unless you can prove without a doubt that the vendor actually knew it was not working then you have no chance. It is now your property and your problem.

Lysimache

Vendor stated 'good working order' in a signed document hence why didn't get it checked beforehand. If the property information form is meaningless, then why is it even required?

G_M

I!!!8217;d

wish I could work out what it meant....

TBagpuss

If they said it was working, and didn't advise that that had changed, then that could mean they would be liable BUT you then didn't inform anyone or get an engineer in for 'several weeks' which creates a problem as the sellers would have a defence if the heating was working when you moved in but then broke.

If they say it was working on completion day and you say it wasn't, and there is no evidence either way, it is your word against theirs. There's nothing to say it didn't break at some point on those weeks after it became yours.

Check with your solicitor but unless your gas engineer is willing to nail their colours to the mast and say there is no chance that the boiler was working at all, within the weeks before they inspected it, I doubt you have any chance.

And if they are willing to say that, then all you would be able to claim is the difference in value between the house with an old but working boiler, and with an old and non-working boiler, not the cost of a new boiler. And you might be able to claim a bit for the cost of (say) buying some plug in heaters, but not living elsewhere while you shop around for boilers.

you'd only be able to claim the difference in value between a working boiler in poor condition and a boiler which has stopped working, which is likely to be minimal.

So, no, you probably can't claim anything at all.

custardy

G_M wrote: »

wish I could work out what it meant....

Its a fault on the forum software. Very annoying but I believe it is apostrophe related.

Tea_Pea_Dee

G_M wrote: »

wish I could work out what it meant....

"I would". The apostrophe changes to loads of exclamation marks and 8217. This has been happening since last weekend when you could not edit. I think there must have been spammers flogging apostrophes for tuppence each, so they have been banned :D

G_M

You'll need strong evidene to make a succcessful claim

Lysimache wrote: »

Got a Registered Gas Engineer around today who said there was a blocked heat exchange, a leaking AAV, and he has written and signed on his gas safety record form that the boiler scaled up over a prolonged time period due to disuse. (His words - I know the vendors didn’t live in it for a while). Needs replacement, not just a quick service!

I know English law says caveat emptor, but if vendors say ‘good working order’ and sign it on the Property Information Form, surely that has some grounds? We had a survey done but surveyor obviously wasn’t a gas engineer (and I have no problem with the surveyor). We will get 3 quotes so that we can prove we are being fair re repair costs.

Start by getting all 3 quotes to also state, in writing, that the boiler must have been faulty and inoperative for months (at least back tto the date when the sellers made their statement).

My queries are:

1. We didn’t get a Registered Gas Engineer around on the first day we entered as we thought it was a simple service that's needed to get it to work, given the vendors said 'good working order' - how serious is that delay? (We waited a while as we are living in rented accommodation and were sorting out other things with new place too.)
It's significant. Seller is likely tto claim the boiler was working at Completion and failed later. Hence the need for definitative written expert staements.

2. We will ask the Vendor to cover the cost of the engineer, installation of new boiler (£1.7k, we will look for cheaper too) etc.

Do we go through our original conveyancing solicitors for that, or is this a separate issue that may need different sort of lawyers if we find the vendors unwilling to pay?
Start by speaking to your conveyancing solicitor, but you may need a litigation solicitor. Or DIY.

3. We’re obviously stuck with an unheated house while we get quotes and decide which boiler to buy etc.

Is it reasonable for us to ask for something on top for days between getting this fixed and finding it out due to the fact that we have it uninhabitable for a short period while this is sorted out? E.g. claim some money for the time between us finding out this problem and getting it fixed? We can’t get a lodger in now for example as it's cold.
Hmmm. You've already managed for 'weeks'. But yes, if you do decide to sue, hy not claim this too. The worst that can happen is you don't succeed on 100% ofthe clcim.

What would be a reasonable amount to claim - £20 per day? £30 per day? Property is £550k residential 3 bed in Zone 2 London. Rental for 3 bed is £1700pcm so £20 per day okay due to cold? Wouldn’t charge for the period before we got the engineer around as I appreciate we could’ve done that on day 1 and the delay in finding out is ours.
You claim your actual loss.

Start by geting expert written statements.

If you can't get those, forget it. If you get those, then consider your next step.

Cakeguts

Ask the gas engineer to explain how a boiler can scale up due to disuse? There is no water coming into the system from outside so where has the extra scale come from?

If you were not cold in the weeks just after you moved in and before you got the gas engineer to visit you can't suddenly complain that you are cold now.

Just replace the boiler it sounds as if the one that doesn't work wouldn't have worked very well anyway due to age?