A Millennial Speaks out

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Silvertabby wrote: »

I'd love to know how many of these 'it's not fair I can't afford to buy a house in London' moaners smoke.

£10 a day = £300 per month = £18,000 over 5 years.

To be fair, smoking amongst young people is lower than it's ever been.

Jibeddy

Please don't judge all of us London Millenial's by things like this, some of us actually are trying!

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Herzlos wrote: »

I think it's absurd that people are expected (or looked down on for not) living like paupers......
Why shouldn't it be possible to have some enjoyment out of life and get a house?

This is what infuriates me; the implication that I'm living some kind of miserable, inferior, Dickensian lifestyle because I'm sensible with my money.

In the decade before I bought my house I:

-went on a Lord of the Rings geek pilgrimage trip to New Zealand, plus two follow-up visits to friends down under
-saw Ian McKellan's Lear plus Judi Dench and Ralph Feinnes on stage
-saw Frankel race five times, Denman twice plus one of the greatest ever modern races (Ouija Board vs Alexander Goldrun at Goodwood)
-went to the Melbourne Cup
-went on a holiday of a lifetime riding Arab horses in the Jordanian desert
-paid for an Open University degree

If you watch your pennies on the boring everyday stuff like magazines, endless coffees, eating out, taxis, mindless clothes shopping etc you end up with more cash to spend on exciting, memorable good stuff.

spadoosh

Herzlos wrote: »

I think it's absurd that people are expected (or looked down on for not) living like paupers for their first working decade if they're expected to get on the property ladder.

Then there's the fact if everyone under 35 did that and stopped spending unnecesary money the economy would utterly implode - almost nothing would be able to stay open (cinemas, bars, clubs, restaraunts, takeaways, shops, car dealerships, taxi firms, night busses).

Why shouldn't it be possible to have some enjoyment out of life and get a house?

People aren't unable to afford houses because they spend £2 on some avocado on toast occasionally - most millenials aren't even going into the coffee shop in the first place. Nor do they all have £40/month phone plans, have multiple tv subscriptions and driving new cars whilst getting ubers everywhere.

Youre right it wasnt the £2 on a single avocado breakfast that means she couldnt afford a house. Its the fact that she spends more or less my entire wage (a FT homeowner) every single month whilst socialising.

Its perfectly possible to have enjoyment out of life and own. I never suffered. Ive had a sky subscription since i bought, i like my computer games with consequential cost that comes with it. My OH gets expensive hair cuts (just noticed the woman spent £181 on a haricut, my OH doesnt actually spend anything near that but in the same breath its not a fiver at the barbers). We rarely say no to social events. But its not an every day occurrence either. Got kid and married (not a particularly cheap do) and not uncommon to have two holidays a year, this year we have 3. All done on about the same as her income but from 2 wages.

She needs to be realistic. If she wants a house on her own, shell probably have to work twice as hard as most homeowners. If she wants a house in london, shell need a big deposit and thus will need to save for it (her current rate of £100 per month means she might have a 5% of £200k deposit in around 8 years. Doubling that (i wouldnt think it would be too difficult, its probably 2 nights less socialising) would halve it to around 4 years.

If i spend all my money on stuff that i enjoy i'd find it really difficult to suggest it was unfair i couldnt afford something else if that was clearly a lower priority.

Cars should be made cheaper so i can have a brand new car, i wouldnt mind a brand new car, ive never had one. Its unfair i cant afford a brand new car. Now, im hoping youll turn around and say, well you can afford a brand new car, just take less holidays, dont smoke and cancel the sky subscription?

Theres enjoying life and theres being frivilous. Do you think if she halved her spend (getting enough for a deposit in a little over 1.5 years) her life would be devoid of enjoyment?

Doozergirl

Herzlos wrote: »

I think it's absurd that people are expected (or looked down on for not) living like paupers for their first working decade if they're expected to get on the property ladder.

Then there's the fact if everyone under 35 did that and stopped spending unnecesary money the economy would utterly implode - almost nothing would be able to stay open (cinemas, bars, clubs, restaraunts, takeaways, shops, car dealerships, taxi firms, night busses).

Why shouldn't it be possible to have some enjoyment out of life and get a house?

People aren't unable to afford houses because they spend £2 on some avocado on toast occasionally - most millenials aren't even going into the coffee shop in the first place. Nor do they all have £40/month phone plans, have multiple tv subscriptions and driving new cars whilst getting ubers everywhere.

I think people forget where we came from.

I'm not 40 yet and I was able to buy my first flat in South London for £55,000. I ate where I wanted, socialised with work at lunchtimes and evenings, wore designer shoes and got on the property ladder without making much of an effort at all. I breezed into it.

It's a little bit different now and I know that I am luckier than many. Lauding it down from on high because you don't go to Five Guys or Nandos and that's how you bought a house 20 years ago, yeah okay. And some millennial somewhere doesn't even a have job because some people don't spend any money.

suki1964

Herzlos wrote: »

I think it's absurd that people are expected (or looked down on for not) living like paupers for their first working decade if they're expected to get on the property ladder.

Then there's the fact if everyone under 35 did that and stopped spending unnecesary money the economy would utterly implode - almost nothing would be able to stay open (cinemas, bars, clubs, restaraunts, takeaways, shops, car dealerships, taxi firms, night busses).

Why shouldn't it be possible to have some enjoyment out of life and get a house?

People aren't unable to afford houses because they spend £2 on some avocado on toast occasionally - most millenials aren't even going into the coffee shop in the first place. Nor do they all have £40/month phone plans, have multiple tv subscriptions and driving new cars whilst getting ubers everywhere.

Don't you think that my point was, that you can still enjoy life without spending silly money on frivolous things

I thoroughly enjoyed my expensive coffee and poached eggs on sour dough at what to me was an eye watering price, because it was that, a treat. Not something I intend to do every day

If I want avocado on toast every day and a posh coffee everyday, I'd buy myself a decent coffee machine and pick up the reduced avocados from Tesco , esp if getting a deposit for a house was my priority

It obviously isn't hers

Yes I'm now mortgage free, now I'm pension saving so for me that's where my money needs to go. I'm also planning the biggy to Autralia, business class flights and luxury all the way. I can't do that and smoke and drink and buying posh coffee everyday. So I quit the smokes last year, now only drink soft drinks when in the pub, eat out on special offers, go to cinema half price Tuesday's, look for free stuff to do at weekends instead of hitting the shops for leasure. Because for me the pension and the life time trip are more important to me

i enjoy my life very much. I also know I want to be able to afford to do that for the rest of my life as well

Malthusian

Arklight wrote: »

If you didn't do this ever you were considered pretty antiscocial. One place I worked had a culture that we'd go to the pub next door at 5 and the first one at the bar would buy a round for whoever was behind them, and rounds would continue like that. I was hourly temping on a lowish wage and utterly lived in fear of this arrangement because one 12 person round could easily wipe out much of what I'd made that day.

But if you didn't do that then you weren't going to get very far in the organisation...

How far were you planning to get in the organisation as a temp?

Presumably after putting up with the schmoozing and socialising you rose through the ranks and were then on a high enough salary to afford to be able to save for a deposit. Otherwise what was the point?

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

This is what infuriates me; the implication that I'm living some kind of miserable, inferior, Dickensian lifestyle because I'm sensible with my money.

By contrast, none of these people YOLOing and drinking avocado liqueur cocktails in the middle of London ever seem very happy.

Arklight

She doesn't earn enough to spend £180 on haircuts, or take taxis for anything other than an emergency.

Things like £100 concert tickets are a one or two off at most. I think people really overestimate what kind of life £30k to £40k buys you.

But this is part of the relentless cut in the standard of living of the 'middle' class. Back in 2007, which was the last time the average worker received a real terms pay increase, a £30k salary was fairly decent, and that's now the £35k ish salary in 2018.

But we've had ten years of inflation in every form of cost of living from petrol, which has gone up to 30% to rail fares and housing.

I'm not crying my eyes out that a journalist can't afford lattes but there are a lot of people like teachers and nurses getting by on far less than this who've spent years in a pay freeze.

bugslet

Doozergirl wrote: »

I think people forget where we came from.

I'm not 40 yet and I was able to buy my first flat in South London for £55,000. I ate where I wanted, socialised with work at lunchtimes and evenings, wore designer shoes and got on the property ladder without making much of an effort at all. I breezed into it.

It's a little bit different now and I know that I am luckier than many. Lauding it down from on high because you don't go to Five Guys or Nandos and that's how you bought a house 20 years ago, yeah okay. And some millennial somewhere doesn't even a have job because some people don't spend any money.

Everyone's different and I haven't forgot.

I'm just a boomer (born June '64), but I really struggled to buy my house because I was on a low wage - I didn't earn an average until I was in my late 30s. I socialised but cheaply, I've never had a designer bag or shoes. Your experience and mine is different

The bottom line is that life is a choice. If people want to spend a lot on nothing much, that's fine, but it's no good saying I want to save for a deposit and spend money going out for drinks and eating out and taxis at the same time.

As for people not having a job, I left school in the year when there were 3 million unemployed.

spadoosh

Arklight wrote: »

She doesn't earn enough to spend £180 on haircuts, or take taxis for anything other than an emergency.

Things like £100 concert tickets are a one or two off at most. I think people really overestimate what kind of life £30k to £40k buys you.

But this is part of the relentless cut in the standard of living of the 'middle' class. Back in 2007, which was the last time the average worker received a real terms pay increase, a £30k salary was fairly decent, and that's now the £35k ish salary in 2018.

But we've had ten years of inflation in every form of cost of living from petrol, which has gone up to 30% to rail fares and housing.

I'm not crying my eyes out that a journalist can't afford lattes but there are a lot of people like teachers and nurses getting by on far less than this who've spent years in a pay freeze.

On the contrary i think people underestimate what £40k buys you.

Im 30. Our household income is £43k before tax.

• decent sized 3 bed semi detached with 150sqm garden
• one child spending at least two days in nursery
• a dog
• My ps4 and xbox and the games and subscriptions for online
• 3 smart phone contracts (OH pays for her mothers)
• average of about 2.2 holidays a year
• The ability to say yes to most social occasions
• contributions to pensions
• a fairly lavish christmas (we go overboard, our choice)
• a few electrical items (laptop, desktop, 3d printer, tablets)
• takeaway about every 2-3 weeks (bearing in mind we out as part of socialising probably abotu the same)
• sky
• little in the way of debt (mortgage and student loans excluded)
• all the bills paid

People are entitled to spend what they want to with their money.

Im fortunate in that i can get more or less everything i want and need for what, to me, seems a fairly modest income. Dont get me wrong theres a few aspirations and dreams however theres a certain amount of contentment set in. I dont have to do that much and feel i can live the rest of my live in relative comfort. But then if i do want something i know that i need to work out how to achieve it and set that as the target. My long term plan is 15 years away for that reason im not completely focused on it yet although im very aware to reach it things need to happen. Its not going to come to me, i have to go and get it.


I personally think the biggest barrier to people buying houses is their need to buy new cars. You mention teachers and nurses, every shcool i go past, the car park is full of at most 3 year old cars. Thats fine if people want to spend £250 for the rest of their life keeping up with the joneses but people cant hide away from there being an opportunity cost to that.

Im not entitled to a house, a car, a good job etc im entitled to try and achieve that.

The problems millenials face is that they havent seen much sacrifice from the generation before (millenials parents have brand new cars, detached houses, holiday homes, awesome pensions etc etc). Theyve grown up thinking its normal to have all that when it never has been. Thats not to say it was cushty to those before but the millenials have only ever seen the cushty side of it whilst being told they can do anything they want to not realising it doesnt mean they can do everything they want to.