Misrepresentation AND failed local searches

davidmcn

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I'm guessing that the question you need to ask a solicitor is along the lines of "I can prove the property has had access up that road in the past for over 20 years (even if it's not the immediate last 20 years) and therefore does that access still legally exist - under something like Prescriptive Rights?"

I believe footpaths can basically never be extinguished (even if long unused) - unless an alternative route is found for that footpath.

I would have thought the same rule applied to roads and motor vehicles.

It is extinguished if the 20 year period expired over 20 years ago i.e. the inverse of the same rule applies - if an easement hasn't been used for a continuous period of 20 years then it's deemed to be extinguished. Though doesn't sound like that's the case here anyway.

Davesnave

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I'm not so sure that I'd think the previous owner was dishonest here .

Then I think you'd better re-familiarise yourself with 2.1 and 3.1 on the TA6.

G_M

Ady1 wrote: »

.....

Both are insistent that the access for our home is via a footpath to the back of the house.
The said footpath is on my deeds.

Ah!

You'll recall that I asked about this way back in post 5!

So your property is NOT 'landlocked' as you claimed. That suggests that you cannot claim to have an Easement of Necessity down the private road.

It does not affect your potential right to an Easement by Prescription though, since itt appears the owners of your property have been using the road forr many years.

cloo

As always with these things, I would try mediation first if you can. Whatever went on between the previous owners and the neighbours (and I suspect something was covered up in order to sell the place), it's worth saying you want a clean break, you want the access you need (I just don't get why people are such *rses about things like this, I mean really, what's it to them to not have someone using a small bit of road/path etc?!) and let's sit down and talk in a less stressful and expensive way to sort things out.

EachPenny

Ady1 wrote: »

Both are insistent that the access for our home is via a footpath to the back of the house. The said footpath is on my deeds. However it states a route for another neighbouring property must have access past our property and up the private road in question to a Work house. The said Work House no longer exists. Never was there a suggestion this access was granted for us to pass the other way.

We need to understand the geography. I understood the private road to pass between the two neighbours (them each owning 50% of the land) and then ending at your property.

If the road passes your property to go to where the workhouse was, and another property then there are more questions to ask:-

What has happened to the old workhouse? Who owns the land it was built on, and what is that land now used for? The workhouse would have been in public ownership, and it is unlikely the guardians would have been happy with the only means of access being via a private (owned by someone else) road unless there was a very clear right of access.

What is the situation with this other property? Does it still exist, and who owns it? Do they exercise their right of access using the road?

What happens at the far end of the road? Does it connect to another public road? Does it continue as a public footpath?

The angle I think might be worth exploring is whether the 'road' is in fact legally a 'highway', albeit not one which is maintainable at public expense. This could possibly explain why the search produced the result it did.

Land_Registry

Apologies for late arrival but fir some reason the thread did not appear in the MSE thread search yesterday or today.


It seems an odd scenario and one which presumably came about from poor conveyancing from when either the property was first sold off it when the 2 houses which own the road were sold off. Important to grant/reserve rights of way/access as appropriate as you all appreciate.

If there are no registered rights over the road then the only options seem to be as explained. Prescriptive rights or ones by necessity.

The only but I can probably add to what the others have posted already is that the 'issues' raised by the 2 owners over the use may have a part to play. If they have for example said NO a number of times then that could impact on any claim re continuous use. I say could as that's for the solicitir to cover off and explain as it's a matter if legal interpretation rather than a registration issue.

Like G_M it seems odd that this may have lasted for so long. The rights passed the kitchen and the footpath access offer a clue that maybe access was not needed in the same way as it us now. The age if the double garage presumably offers a clue as to when access started/was needed but some unravelling needed.

It might also be interesting to know how long the current owners if the drive have been there and if not too long did previous owners take a different view, did they know more if the history etc.

Lots if Qs to be raised and answered but your solicitor needs to advise you here. There's nothing I can usefully add re 'costs' as that is the bit that happens before anything might be registered. But again your solicitor can cover the options but much may depend on your neighbour's re which one works best financially.

Happy to take a look at the titles if you email me and quote MSE and state the titles involved. I wouldn't want to muddy things fir OP or solicitor but it may help others to understand the history a little more re ownership/sales off etc

Cakeguts

Ady1 wrote: »

I’m informed that it was a working garage for the repair of motor vehicles during the 80s and 90s. The floor of the garage is painted with boundary’ markers . I’m my opinion they look like safe zones and working areas. If that makes sense.

The neighbours however inform me that the area used to be a farm up until the 90s with a working garage. Prior to this they formed Work houses during the 17C. However the farm was broken up into seperate dwellings at which point the road accessing our drive way was divided up and evident on there deeds.

Who owns what was the working garage? That garage had access for vehicles. It is unlikely that the working garage had its access rights extinguished when the road was added to the deeds of the other houses.

Ady1

Title number forward via email. I appreciate the help people.

Davesnave

Cakeguts wrote: »

Who owns what was the working garage? That garage had access for vehicles. It is unlikely that the working garage had its access rights extinguished when the road was added to the deeds of the other houses.

I think we have been assuming this is the double garage the OP has bought with the property.

EachPenny

Davesnave wrote: »

I think we have been assuming this is the double garage the OP has bought with the property.

There are quite a few unknowns we are guessing at that the OP has not been forthcoming with further details.