Misrepresentation AND failed local searches

G_M

Smodlet wrote: »

Imo, it is a solicitor's job to find this stuff out; what are they being paid for? A load of form-filling once they have been provided with every last bit of information on a plate? Why bother with them, then? You're not a solicitor/conveyancer by any chance, are you?

The solicitor is required to investigate Title (which includes matters like access).

There job is therefore to gather the relevant documentation (Title Deeds etc), undertake the relevant searches (Local Authority etc), and ask the reevant uestions (Enquiries of the vendor etc).

It is then there job to examine all that for potential issues, and advise their clients (the buyer and mortgage lender) of what they have found, including translating/explaining any legalese into a forrm the client can understand.

If they are given false information, they cannot be responsible for that.

That is why when listing ho should bear the cost of court action (post above) I carefully wrote "and/or". We only know what the OP has told us, and it may be that the solicitor was negligent, and should bear (some/all) the responsibility, but until the full facts are known we cannot rush to judgement.

moneyistooshorttomention

G_M wrote: »

Clearly someone (or various someones!) have been accessing the prperty for the last 500 years - unless you bought a long derelict property!

So an easement by prior use is pretty well bound to exists - unless (as asked above) there is another access route that has been historically used.

I think the phrase you are after might be "prescriptive rights".

I believe that if owners of a property have been using a road to access a property for over 20 years that they have "prescriptive rights" to continue doing so - even if there's nothing down in the Deeds to say that it's an official "Right of Way".

I would think the vendor needs to write out a "statement of truth" stating that they have been using the road (complete with their vehicles) for the last 20 years or more. If they haven't had the house as long as 20 years - you may be going back to find the previous owner to them and getting a "statement of truth" from them as well etc.

What I am wondering is what proof these other two households have that they have "ownership" and OP doesnt have "ownership". Surely it's the case that either:
- everyone has "ownership"
OR
- there isn't a known owner
OR
- there is only one owner living in the road and ownership isn't shared between these other two households in the road, but somehow OP's house hasnt got any "ownership".

I would be asking loud and clear for these other two households to provide proof in writing of anything they say - and be interested to see if they have any or are just trying it on:cool:

As G_M has pointed out - with this house being way more than 20 years old (in fact has been around for more than 20 years in "Car Era" time) then access has been happening - and it's almost certainly been happening by car as well.

My suspicion is that neither of these two households are "owners" and I would be asking Land Registry for copies of their Title Deeds AND Register entries. It's only a few £'s (ie £3 per document if you can get it online and £7 per document if you have to send for paper copy). So £12 - £28 in total - dependant on what way you get these copies.

**************

As a little sideline thought - of a rather different variety - with a cottage that old there might well be some "local knowledge" about the situation somewhere or other in someone's head or filing cabinet. That "someone" could be a local historian/could be the local vicar/could be owner of the nearest local pub. I wouldnt be surprised if somebody nearby knows a bit more about the situation.

*******************

Basically - OP (and their visitors) cannot be prevented from accessing the property on foot (as that's "easement of necessity"). The question is whether OP and visitors can be prevented from accessing the property in a vehicle or no.

Davesnave

Ady1 wrote: »

I now have a house that’s land locked.........

Having spoken to the neighbours there has been several letters sent to the previous vendor relating to breech of access having used the road to park on the drive and access the garage.

In your position I wouldn't treat it as land-locked just yet.

You have it from the horses' mouths that the previous owner was using it. What happened? They were sent some letters!

Obviously, this needs sorting out properly, but for the moment I'd use it.

A similar thing happened to us when we moved to our current property. We soon worked out that the complainers had no basis for restricting access and no intention whatever of spending any money on legal action.

moneyistooshorttomention

Of course - the thought arises as to what awkward neighbours like this (yours and DavesNave ones) etc hope to gain with their awkwardness.

At a guess - money would be the first thought I'd have coming to mind.

Maybe they're hoping to be "paid off" to "buy" something OP has every right to anyway (ie that access).

My other thought on this would be that the Awkward Squad have got stuff down there (in the Register entry of their "deeds") stating they have to pay towards maintenance of the road BUT for some historical reason-or-another OP hasn't got that particular clause down in their Register entry. Followed by the Awkward Squad then MISinterpreting the situation the way they want to "turn it on its head" and say to themselves (and try and convince OP) that that fact must mean they don't have the right to use a road they probably have every bit as much "ownership" of as the Awkward Squad do.

I'm wondering whether OP's house has been there for a good bit longer than the houses of the neighbours - and hence has 15th century/16th century/etc terms of road use. But maybe those other 2 houses were built rather later and, by that point in time, those sort of clauses got put into some people's Register entries if they lived in an unadopted road?? Again - a local historian might be of assistance here.

Ady1

Stated in the title is a right of access granted in 1880 to the neighbours on the other side of our property to come past our kitchen To be able to get to a Work House.

No where was it stated or does it state that was our access in and out. Only that we must obtain agreement to remove said access in order to extend our property once purchased.
The access in question hasn’t been used in 20+ yeas. I was assured by the vendor that this wouldn’t be a problem. The neighbour has also confirmed this also not a problem.

Regarding the road that leads to our gated drive way, subsequently ending at our double garage. This road is divided up on the land registry between those 2 neighbours. A red line down the Center. The neighbours are either side of the road and I am at the end.

Ady1

Having spoke to the neighbours I outlined that we had 2 issues, 1 legal case for miss representation and or incorrect search details attaining to a purchase of a property with no vehicle access.
2nd, obtain access by vehicle to our garage to secure the funds borrowed for the next 22years and 6 month mortgage remaining. With out Road access, I would expect my property to be worth half the amount paid.

My solicitors have said on face value I have been miss represented by the vendor and the search provider has admitted a mistake has been made on their behalf.. I am actively seeking to obtain the evidence relating to the vendors breach by form of letters sent by neighbours solicitors.

On advice of our solicitor we have discussed with our building insurance provider however I did not obtain cover for legal expenses.

How much is this likely to cost?

I knew House purchase was stressful, but not once your moved in.

moneyistooshorttomention

Ady1 wrote: »

Regarding the road that leads to our gated drive way, subsequently ending at our double garage. This road is divided up on the land registry between those 2 neighbours. A red line down the Center. The neighbours are either side of the road and I am at the end.

This could be the clue to this situation.

Where there isn't a known road-owner - then, as I understand it, we then move onto the concept of "frontagers".

That being that, in the absence of knowing just who the owner actually is, that it's sorta deemed to be the case that the frontagers are said to own the road. That being that they are deemed to have a sort of ownership of the road out to the mid-way point on that road.

That sounds like what has happened here.

But the Land Registry will know/should know that your house is also there in this road.

It could be some sort of "convenience" thing the Land Registry has done here - to say to these two neighbours that they are "frontagers" to the road (because their houses front onto the road) but the LR hasn't said that to you because your house doesnt front onto the road.

All the more reason to clarify things with the Land Registry.

BTW A Land Registry rep. comes onto this sub-forum regularly and chances are that they will see this thread. So they may be replying to this particular point on here anyway come Monday.

If not you could always give a shout-out for them to say what their take is on this point.

Might as well go for it and now give them a shout-out so:

LAND REGISTRY REP.... please.

That should do the trick next time they're on duty:)

At a guess - the money angle I'm wondering about could be down to these two houses have had it sorta "imposed" on them to state they are "frontagers". With that - they could be at risk of claims from any motorists that drive up that road and come off worst as regards any potholes in the road. So - this could all boil down to sheer jealousy on their part - ie that they've been deemed to be frontagers - and you havent (ie you are not at risk of an insurance claim).

moneyistooshorttomention

You may find it interesting to read this:

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/conveyancing-questions/8887-unadopted-private-road-who-owns-who-maintains

moneyistooshorttomention

Bumped.....

martindow

Another angle could be investigating when the garage was built. If you find that it has been there a long time from planning applications, aerial photos or large scale maps that could be evidence of prior use for over 20 years.