MSE News: You'll soon be able to refill your water bottle for free

LadyDee

All these so-called "free" services are not free at all or they shouldn't be. They are a part of a business overhead and prices should reflect that overall. Which of course leads to increased prices for all - whether or not they avail themselves of the "free" water, wifi, toilet etc. We all pay the cost of providing them.

aj23_2

Pivotal wrote: »

Why would I remove my tables & chairs from my cafe????

Do we ask - yes, do we have signs yes, do we go over & point out they paid for takeaway - yes. We do enforce where we can, but understandably staff dont want to be sworn at, spit at or thumped.

Do they make more mess? Hell yes

You said you were a takeaway, takeaways usually don't have tables. That was my point.

I doubt your staff are sworn at, spit at or thumped. I think you're making issues where there aren't any. Like I said, put a lock on. Sorted. If staff aren't doing it then it's not enforced. I've been to places where they don't allow using the toilet unless you're a customer, and I've never seen those things happen, and they seem to manage.

You seem to want to charge everyone for everything. Part of running a business is business costs, but some of those things you can't offload on to the customer. As I said before, you are choosing to let them use things like Wi-Fi. No one said you have to. My gym doesn't even let us use the Wi-Fi, but they don't need to either. I still go there.

Pivotal

I said coffee shop / cafe & takeaway option.

I don't charge people for my chat & wisdom, nor for the air in my shop they breath, for the rests of the things if I have to pay for it to for them to use, then I have to recoup those costs from someone - its a business fact.

& yes we have been sworn at, spat at, thumped, chairs smashed, had money thrown at us & had plenty of unwarranted abuse.

So we put a lock on 7 years ago, more abuse, damaged door, staff upset, thank you but I will not do that again.

So my sit in customers ask why its a higher price to sit in rather than takeaway & I explain, unlike the big companies that charge a single price (there is no VAT on cold takeaway food, but there is on hot) we have split prices to fairly reflect the costs to us & whilst the cost of the tables & chairs isnt thousands I have had to pay for them to be there & will eventually have to pay to replace them over something like 5 years, additionally the staff have to keep the tables clean, bring the food to them, clear up & wash up, which is a much longer time than serving takeaway - I have to pay the staff for that time & my extra costs have to be passed on. Finally a large slice of the extra price is VAT, a tax so high that many do their best to avoid paying it where they can. 99% are happy with this response as Im providing an extra service, a place to sit, eat & yes use the toilet, they can see that if I charged the same as the takeaway price (often set based on what the supermarkets push the price down too), then I might just as well not differentiate ourselves from the other stores by having a sit in area at all & just offer takeaway. I might get slightly fewer customers, but the cut in costs would balance it out. We dont because we are appreciated for the service we do provide at a reasonable cost (to most) & the most frequent complaint heard from a customer is that of them berating the free loaders as they see them.

When someone comes in & asks where the nearest public loo is, we often offer ours for their convenience, but when someone walks in, looks for the loo, uses it & then sneaks out, its just plain rude, & just because we are a cafe it does not give people the right to be rude

All expense have to be factored in to prices, salt sachets, napkins, paper cups etc as well as the big items like rent, rates & staff costs - just like any business, thats the real world.

We could charge a single price for hot/cold in/out, its simpler, but then we would be dearer on like for like sales than the other shops or we could stop doing takeaway, neither would be popular, all because some people feel they shouldn't have to recompense a business for a service used - I say that's not equitable.

Free water is not free, the cost will be spread across the actual paying customers in every business, fact. Those people who come in, have food / drink & politely request a top up of their water bottle will continue to get it, as in the past, after we point out the chilled water available to buy.

Former_MSE_Andrea

Great feedback everyone (all be it a bit heated in places!)

As a consumer I'm really grateful when a shop says yes to topping up my kids' water bottle. I've only asked when we've been in the cafe buying a drink anyway though. I haven't yet had the courage to go in a place just for the water.

I would absolutely go back to cafes that happily provide a water refill. I probably wouldn't go back to cafes that don't.

I'm very keen on encouraging cafes of all kinds to offer this as a service to reduce plastic use.

aj23_2

Pivotal wrote: »

I said coffee shop / cafe & takeaway option.

I don't charge people for my chat & wisdom, nor for the air in my shop they breath, for the rests of the things if I have to pay for it to for them to use, then I have to recoup those costs from someone - its a business fact.

& yes we have been sworn at, spat at, thumped, chairs smashed, had money thrown at us & had plenty of unwarranted abuse.

So we put a lock on 7 years ago, more abuse, damaged door, staff upset, thank you but I will not do that again.

So my sit in customers ask why its a higher price to sit in rather than takeaway & I explain, unlike the big companies that charge a single price (there is no VAT on cold takeaway food, but there is on hot) we have split prices to fairly reflect the costs to us & whilst the cost of the tables & chairs isnt thousands I have had to pay for them to be there & will eventually have to pay to replace them over something like 5 years, additionally the staff have to keep the tables clean, bring the food to them, clear up & wash up, which is a much longer time than serving takeaway - I have to pay the staff for that time & my extra costs have to be passed on. Finally a large slice of the extra price is VAT, a tax so high that many do their best to avoid paying it where they can. 99% are happy with this response as Im providing an extra service, a place to sit, eat & yes use the toilet, they can see that if I charged the same as the takeaway price (often set based on what the supermarkets push the price down too), then I might just as well not differentiate ourselves from the other stores by having a sit in area at all & just offer takeaway. I might get slightly fewer customers, but the cut in costs would balance it out. We dont because we are appreciated for the service we do provide at a reasonable cost (to most) & the most frequent complaint heard from a customer is that of them berating the free loaders as they see them.

When someone comes in & asks where the nearest public loo is, we often offer ours for their convenience, but when someone walks in, looks for the loo, uses it & then sneaks out, its just plain rude, & just because we are a cafe it does not give people the right to be rude

All expense have to be factored in to prices, salt sachets, napkins, paper cups etc as well as the big items like rent, rates & staff costs - just like any business, thats the real world.

We could charge a single price for hot/cold in/out, its simpler, but then we would be dearer on like for like sales than the other shops or we could stop doing takeaway, neither would be popular, all because some people feel they shouldn't have to recompense a business for a service used - I say that's not equitable.

Free water is not free, the cost will be spread across the actual paying customers in every business, fact. Those people who come in, have food / drink & politely request a top up of their water bottle will continue to get it, as in the past, after we point out the chilled water available to buy.

I've never witnessed any kind of physical or verbal abuse in a cafe. You saying people walking in looking for toilets 'sneakily' are rude and those who ask you let use them. That's like saying those you walk in look at your food and decide to go somewhere are rude, but those who look and ask and you don't have it aren't rude.

I think you're being quite pedantic. It really sounds like you begrudge giving anything, despite the fact that that is what probably brings people back so you win anyway. As such, you're choosing to let customers use certain things like Wi-Fi, but that in particular doesn't increase you're bill. You pay rental fee for the phone line, not a pay per MB. I get that you're an independent but they usually are more expensive and the markup on food is massive anyway.

Pivotal

Ok, you clearly have more experience than I do, with my working a mere 70 hours a week for 11 years in my shop, so I must be wrong

Clearly I should allow anyone to treat my staff & myself in any manner they sit fit, irrespective of how that affects them

Clearly my expecting people to be civil & respond to a good morning or hello is unreasonable, like wise my offering a service & expecting payment for that service is a concept you dont understand.

Clearly because my responding to polite manners in a positive way & reacting to impolite behavour bother you, thats something I dont have to deal with

My mark up is 30% - we are a talking small cafe / coffee shop - not 200/300% for a steak house chain etc, from which I have to take my overheads, I dont benefit from massive buying power & I dont have a corporate HQ that produces all my stationary, compliance paperwork or food at a low cost, yet I still sell most items cheaper than the big name coffee shops & the biggest High Street 'baker' in the UK.

Its my choice to offer WiFi to payng customers, non paying & takeaway customers do not know the passphrase, to access the passphrase you have to purchase the coresponding goods. FYI Wifi is provided by a third party company at an additional cost to me, above the line rental & ISP charge

Giving?, I fill kids water bottle several times a week, because stressed parents have forgotten to top up, I regularly tell people to pay next time they are in because they have forgotten their money after getting to the till, let school kids use the phone because they need to call home, take old people home by car who are feeling unwell, phone or visit them for no gain but to check their ok, I give multiple raffle prizes to local groups & schools in the area, donate to the Christmas lights & numerous other events, put up leaflets advertising local events for free - all of which NONE of the big names will do. We raise money for two charities with events we organise & go for in a big way, I dont think we dont give anything, Im pretty sure in comparison to you I do plenty.

Now you must excuse me Im going to see if I can cadge a free ride on a bus to the local cinema, where theres bound to be a few empty seats in one of the screens that I can sneak into without paying, then I can go & get a free drink from somewhere - see you there?

onomatopoeia99

aj23 wrote: »

As such, you're choosing to let customers use certain things like Wi-Fi, but that in particular doesn't increase you're bill. You pay rental fee for the phone line, not a pay per MB. .

You seem not to be familiar with the requirements that merchant services providers impose on those that accept credit card payments (have a read of PCI DSS and come back when you have fully understood it), because they really do not like the connection that authorises credit cards online shared with public wifi. You may be able to work out why on your own. That means two connections, two bills, and remember that these need to be business connections, not £2./month with prepaid credit card cashback retentions blah blah blah domestic connections.

ask66

Coming a bit late to this "discussion"! Just wanted to add my support to you, Pivotal. I'm sure it is quite difficult enough to run a small business these days, without having people taking the p**s (pardon the pun). And sadly, I can't help thinking there's probably an increasing number of people who take the p**s without it occurring to them that they are doing anything wrong!