Cowboy builder & small claims court - who/ what is the defendant?

orangecrush

Good morning all,

I sadly have been let down by the builder we hired last year to construct a small extension. He stopped work in June, with sporadic texts to explain his absence (he injured his shoulder, then his back, then his wife kicked him out, then his labourers were stealing from him so he had to sack them). We sent a letter before action in August giving him two weeks to return to site and to complete the work in another two weeks (he had told us this would be acceptable, our architect confirmed it was reasonable.) He failed to turn up and then vanished completely.

We are getting all our information together for a MCOL claim, but we are a bit confused about whether he or the limited company is the defendant. Whilst he set up a limited company, he told us that he would be doing the work himself as his relationship with his business partner had soured. As we trusted him (he came with references, all of which checked out, and he had worked with our architect previously) we paid him personally, into his personal bank account, not into the company account.

The company is in the process of being struck off. I know a director has no personal liability for the debts of a limited company, but we did not pay the limited company - we paid the director. The quote and schedule of works are on headed paper with his company name.

The MCOL guidance is not clear in this instance who we should claim against. Has anyone had a similar case? Can you advise who you claimed against if so?

I know we have no realistic chance of getting our money back, but are going through the process nonetheless, I suppose as a sort of catharsis!

Sorry for the long message. Hoping someone can help to save us from our own inexperience!

Thank you and wishing you all a good day!

Newuser1987

orangecrush wrote: »

Good morning all,

I know we have no realistic chance of getting our money back, but are going through the process nonetheless, I suppose as a sort of catharsis!

What money are you trying to get back? Money that you have paid in advance or money for the work he has already done? I appreciate very frustrating having the delays and now having to find another builder to complete the works but what have you actually lost out on financially? Not trying to say the builder hasn't done anything wrong more that if the reasons he did give were genuine then it may be a bit harsh to call him a cowboy. I would be calling him a cowboy if he went off with money for work not yet complete or if the quality of work was poor.

I couldn't really comment regards to who you should be putting down but I would check what it says on the invoices that he issued.

orangecrush

Hi,

Thanks for your post! I don’t want to get into detail that may identify him or me. Please just trust me and believe that he was - and probably still is - a total cowboy. I am not the only victim.

As to what we lost, we had paid him around 50% of what his fee was. We had a building surveyor and the architect come around and assess the work - both agreed that he had seriously dropped the ball. We’ve had quotes to repair the awful work, and complete the job, as well as replace the stuff that was damaged or broken. This in sum is greater than the total outstanding to the builder before he ran off. Therein lies our need to get some money back to cover our losses.

The invoice vs payment issue is exactly why I posted - we never got any invoices. All we have are a quote and a schedule of works, which agrees staged payments and lists his company bank details. The builder told us that he was doing the work himself, not through the company, and we paid him according to his instruction into his personal account. As I said, we had no reason not to trust him.

So we got a quote from his company, but he as an individual did the work and received payment. So who is the defendant? Either way I am expecting nothing, I just want to follow due process and ensure that what he did to us and many others is recorded somewhere so other poor clients don’t suffer the same. If we get some of our losses covered, bonus.

Doozergirl

Where exactly are people going to find this record? I don’t know how to find out if people/companies have CCJs.

There was a salient point made here recently; If you did not do enough due diligience to make sure you hired a builder capable of carrying out the job to completion, or ask for invoices even, then why do you think that other people will be looking to be saved from him? If you fell for it, others will too.

You might need to take advice from the court as to who exactly your defendent is.

I appreciate that what you have left to do is worth more than the 50% left in the ‘contract’. Was the actual original quote large enough to cover the full cost of work in the first place? Why did you pick him?

bris

I would sue him personally. Getting it paid into his own account can justify that, especially if you can get the builder to back it up.

orangecrush

Doozergirl wrote: »

Where exactly are people going to find this record? I don’t know how to find out if people/companies have CCJs.

This is why I need saving from my inexperience :rotfl:I had read that if we successfully take the company to the small claims court, and he tries to dissolve it after judgement has been made, the court could forcibly liquidate it... whether this would end up in the public domain I'm not sure. Naivety on my part I am sure.

Doozergirl wrote: »

There was a salient point made here recently; If you did not do enough due diligience to make sure you hired a builder capable of carrying out the job to completion, or ask for invoices even, then why do you think that other people will be looking to be saved from him? If you fell for it, others will too.
...
I appreciate that what you have left to do is worth more than the 50% left in the ‘contract’. Was the actual original quote large enough to cover the full cost of work in the first place? Why did you pick him?

On the due diligence, I know the thread you mean, I have been lurking and reading for many months, and I totally see the point. We definitely did as much as we could: we got several references, visited a finished and an in-progress project, spoke to other previous customers. We took the fact our architect had successfully worked with him in the past as positive too. He had all the right insurances should anything go wrong, and seemed really professional.

As to why we hired him, we got five quotes, all in roughly the same ballpark, so I have no reason to doubt that the builder under-quoted. He was in the middle of the range of quotes, and we chose him because he had a good working relationship with the architect, seemed to check out, and he just seemed decent.

In hindsight there were a couple of odd things - he only gave us references for the previous year; he said he had been working for someone else previously rather than as a limited company, and didn't want to give us references for jobs he wasn't in charge of. We didn't think to check out his previous business partner, but there had been no other red flags.

Once we hired him there were a few more weird events and strange behaviours, but the work was progressing well until he started working on another job, then everything started to unravel.

We know he's now left this part of the country and is setting up another business 250 miles away, far away from the trail of destruction he has left!

I have tried CAB for advice on who the defendant should be, but they advised seeking legal advice. We don't have legal cover on our home insurance so I was hoping google or the wise minds of MSE might be able to help, but I think it sounds like legal advice is the best route.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond :beer:

Ectophile

Look closely at the paperwork you have.

If it's from a company, then it must have the company name, their registered address, and the company registration number. If that's the case, sue the company.

If they aren't there, then you don't have a contract with a company, just a person (perhaps trading under a trade name). So sue the person.

orangecrush

This is the problem - the paperwork is in the company name, which we have an address for, and for the builder (the director). But we paid the company no money. So do we have a right to claim against a company we paid nothing to?

We did pay the builder, who is the director of the company, but he made it clear we were paying him and NOT the company, as at that time it had multiple directors. So the director took the money privately, but the quote was from the company.

My head is spinning! I just want to get the MCOL right - we’ve lost so much already I don’t want to have to launch two claims.

As I said above though, I suspect only legal advice can help, so I’ll try that avenue and will report back if I get an answer, in case it’s useful to anyone else.

orangecrush

P.S. Sorry, I may have misinterpreted your post. Do you mean that the list of items you mention (company name, company address, company number) must all be on the paperwork? And without any one of those items (e.g. the company number, which is not on any paperwork) is missing from the paperwork then we should sue the person, and not the company?

It is definitely a limited company he set up - it is on Companies House and the address on his quote matches the address on CH. MCOL guidance is clear that you cannot use the “trading as” approach if it is a limited company, as that only applies to sole traders.

I am starting to wonder if actually this builder is very clever, and has done this on purpose

KeithP

Make both the individual and the company joint defendants.

Or you could ask on the legal beagles forum.

teneighty

I might be wrong but I thought you could have joint defendants so name the director personally and the company.

If it goes to a hearing the judge could decide who he issues the judgement against or whether he splits it between the two.