Public sector pay freeze/Inflation calculation

Nick_C

antrobus wrote: »

But in the USA, which is the one country in the world that has a 'free market' in health care, it is extraordinarily expensive. Largely because of the amounts of money demanded by doctors and other HCPs.

... and the propensity of Americans to sue at any opportunity.

Tromking

BobQ wrote: »

The public service is now relying on the loyalty of an ageing workforce. But its time will pass as they retire and then we will get the public sector servants we deserve for the way we have treated them. The NHS is beginning to fall apart for that reason as is the social care sector.

Spot on.
My area is now split between by people like me aged between 45 to 60 hanging around like a bad smell until our retirements and an ever changing cohort of poorly remunerated youngsters who stay for a couple of years and then inevitably leave crying ‘ !!!! this, for a game of soldiers’.
With 83% of workers being employed in the private sector, I can’t see the political pressure to reward public sector workers ever being too onerous. They’d never admit it, but I think the political class are perhaps gearing us up to accept less in the way quality public services. Perhaps public servants and millions of people who access the services need to realise the salad days are over.

economic

What is the right level of pay for public sector workers? How do we know we haven’t been overpaying them for many decades? Pay should include pensions as well. How do we know we need all these public sector workers? Hopefully technology and AI can replace many of the public sector workers so we don’t have to pay wages anymore and we get a far superior level of service. Public sector should be downsized and made efficient as much as possible because in reality they are accountable to no one.

westernpromise

BobQ wrote: »

Maybe they have a job that has other things they must do in a working day unconnected with your problem? Maybe their private sector sourced IT is so carp that they have to log on to special computer to receive your gateway emails and they can only do that a couple of times a day? Just consider that they have constraints on their work that they cannot control.

Maybe they start work at 0800 and have other things to do before opening the phonelines? Maybe they acfually do finish work at 1600? Or maybe they had to work late one evening and are making up the time? Many public sector organisations operate family friendly policies that include flexible working or early starts so that they can pick up children?

Touched a nerve I see.

Suck it up. So what if the truth hurts.

westernpromise

GreatApe wrote: »

The big positive about the NHS in particular is that it can control wages downwards especially of doctors but perhaps also of nurses to a lessor extent. Its why I fully support the NHS even though I am generally right wing and agree and support free markets. Long live the NHS and its ability to keep doctors wages at half of what they otherwise likely would be.

Although it's a monopsony this is of advantage only to the buyer of the "service", i.e. the state, not the user. That's the problem. When the NHS kills or endangers people they can't withdraw their custom - ditto the police, the FCA and the other examples I gave of total unaccountability.

Nick_C

economic wrote: »

Hopefully technology and AI can replace many of the public sector workers so we don’t have to pay wages anymore and we get a far superior level of service.

Be careful what you wish for. That sort of technology would decimate the private sector as well.

Who would pay for all those unemployed people? How would businesses make money if no one is earning money?

westernpromise

BobQ wrote: »

the Annual Civil Service Employment Survey shows that between 2009 and 2015 2000+ civil servants were dismissed each year.

Which is less than a quarter of the rate at which people are dismissed in the workforce as a whole. Very, very low standards are acceptable.

So I'm right. But I'll restate to make you happy: approximately no-one is ever sacked. Is that better? I note you can't dispute my list of public sector job losses for killing people.

westernpromise

Nick_C wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for. That sort of technology would decimate the private sector as well.

Who would pay for all those unemployed people? How would businesses make money if no one is earning money?

You're so right. I mean, when the spinning jenny was invented unemployment rose because we didn't need weavers, when the train was invented it rose again because cart-horse drivers lost their jobs,when the mobile phone was invented secretaries lost their jobs, so that eventually there are no jobs left at--oh.

Nick_C

westernpromise wrote: »

You're so right. I mean, when the spinning jenny was invented unemployment rose because we didn't need weavers, when the train was invented it rose again because cart-horse drivers lost their jobs,when the mobile phone was invented secretaries lost their jobs, so that eventually there are no jobs left at--oh.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

Many public sector jobs are white collar. If those jobs can be replaced by AI then do can private sector office jobs.

I'm totally in favour of increased efficiency in both the public and private sector.

But usually technology replaces some jobs and creates others.

But of robots could do the work of people, then they could create and maintain more robots. People wouldn't be needed.

GreatApe

westernpromise wrote: »

Although it's a monopsony this is of advantage only to the buyer of the "service", i.e. the state, not the user. That's the problem. When the NHS kills or endangers people they can't withdraw their custom - ditto the police, the FCA and the other examples I gave of total unaccountability.

I'd rather take some instances of incompetence that goes unpunished than to see the healthcare bill rise from 10% to 15% of GDP through higher wages for doctors and nurses. In a free market system which will just become a rigged system by the doctors to limit supply to grossly drive their wages up. Median USA physician wages are over £200,000 compared to what 1/4th of that for NHS doctors?

The best outcome we can seek is to replace as much of healthcare as possible with machines software and self/pharmacy proscribed medicines.