Public sector pay freeze/Inflation calculation

Tromking

MataNui wrote: »

....public sector workers love to bleat on about the pay freeze and how they are missing out but at the lower end of the scale they have always and still are onto a very good thing. Not so clear in the middle though. Mid level professional jobs definitely seem to be better off in the private sector.

They don’t just bleat, in lots of cases they up and leave and create a situation where there are currently 10K nursing vacancies in the NHS.
It obviously doesn’t bother you, but Governments have a responsibility to pitch the remuneration at a level where staff retention is not an issue.

Malthusian

Tromking wrote: »

They don’t just bleat, in lots of cases they up and leave and create a situation where there are currently 10K nursing vacancies in the NHS.

There are ∞ nursing vacancies in the NHS. It's free at the point of use which means it will never have enough "frontline" (i.e. useful) staff to cope with demand. The 10k is just a nice round figure to trot out in the media because typing ∞ requires some effort.

Nick_C

westernpromise wrote: »

Really? It's generally rubbish regardless. We should keep cracking down on their pay - those who are any good will get more productive jobs in the private sector, and those who stay will have demonstrated that they were overpaid before.

Perhaps the public sector body you worked for was rubbish. The one I worked for was not.

Malthusian

To expand: there may be 10,000 nursing roles in the NHS currently being advertised across the UK, but the number of roles that has been advertised is an arbitrary figure and not the true number of nurses needed by the NHS. Which is infinity. If all those 10,000 nursing roles were filled tomorrow, demand for the newly efficient and caring NHS would rocket and the NHS would need another 10,000 nurses to cope with the increased demand.

Let us say that 10,000 fully qualified nurses were suddenly beamed down from a UFO and they filled all the vacancies, and the same thing happened with all the vacancies for doctors and other medical staff. Would the NHS now be fully staffed? Maybe for a week, but the week after, people would find out that there were hospitals all over the UK you could go to with any condition and any little ache and pain and be treated promptly and efficiently, for free.

People who currently go private to avoid the queues would cancel their medical insurance and use the NHS instead. People who would formerly have stayed at home and waited for their pain to go away will instead go to the hospital. People will eat more crisps and drink more cola because everyone knows that if you get diabetes or a heart attack the NHS will sort you out. People who would previously have died will now live and develop a more complicated and expensive condition.

And within weeks the waiting lists will have returned to equilibrium and the NHS will need 10,000 new nurses. We will have the same problem, only we'll be spending more money on it. Basically what happened under Gordon Brown, again.

The idea that the NHS needs X new nurses is farcical. Any service that attempts to deliver free universal quality healthcare will always be understaffed.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

They don’t just bleat, in lots of cases they up and leave and create a situation where there are currently 10K nursing vacancies in the NHS.

Qualified nurses jump ship then return as agency staff (private contractors). Better paid and can pick when and where to work......

All of which costs us taxpayers extra money. Bleeding hospital budgets. Our local hospital spent £15 million on employing such staff in the 2015/16 tax year alone.

MataNui

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Qualified nurses jump ship then return as agency staff (private contractors). Better paid and can pick when and where to work......

All of which costs us taxpayers extra money. Bleeding hospital budgets. Our local hospital spent £15 million on employing such staff in the 2015/16 tax year alone.

This exactly. I just didnt want to be getting into any pointless arguments. The thing is its a vicious cycle started by greed and opportunity. Nurses leave to go to the agency because they see agency workers doing f-all and being payed obscene amounts of money while they feel overworked. This means those left end up feeling more overworked and the pay gap seems bigger so they leave etc.

You will NEVER be able to pay nurses enough to stop this. They are already payed a comparable salary for similar level graduate entry roles. You need to make it less attractive to work for agencies.

Tromking

MataNui wrote: »

This exactly. I just didnt want to be getting into any pointless arguments. The thing is its a vicious cycle started by greed and opportunity. Nurses leave to go to the agency because they see agency workers doing f-all and being payed obscene amounts of money while they feel overworked. This means those left end up feeling more overworked and the pay gap seems bigger so they leave etc.

You will NEVER be able to pay nurses enough to stop this. They are already payed a comparable salary for similar level graduate entry roles. You need to make it less attractive to work for agencies.

A vicious cycle solely created by short sighted politicians unfortunately.

Tromking

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Qualified nurses jump ship then return as agency staff (private contractors). Better paid and can pick when and where to work......

All of which costs us taxpayers extra money. Bleeding hospital budgets. Our local hospital spent £15 million on employing such staff in the 2015/16 tax year alone.

You comment on the symptoms but ignore the causes.

westernpromise

Tromking wrote: »

Again, loads of stonkingly good Civil Service pensions currently available in the Prison Service if you fancy testing yourself.

I'd be looking for less work for more money, or the same money.

Less work for less money, or more work for more money, would be sideways moves.

Tromking

westernpromise wrote: »

I'd be looking for less work for more money, or the same money.

Less work for less money, or more work for more money, would be sideways moves.

I don’t think the calling that is public service is for you.