Buying flat without Electrical Certificate

cjmillsnun

buggy_boy wrote: »

How old is the property? have a look at the consumer unit, is it old style pull out fuses or more modern rcd's (google to see the difference). have a look at the switch's and ceiling roses, are they modern? Unscrew a ceiling rose and see if there is a live, neutral and earth.

If the consumer unit has fuses you probably want to change that, if the ceiling rose only has live and neutral then the entire lighting circuits need to be replaced and likely a complete rewire. Have a look at the consumer unit how many fuses/rcd's do you see? Old wiring usually has few as they never had many sockets in each room, (depending on size of house), usually these days if you have a good sized kitchen I would expect that to be on its own ring...

If its really old wiring you might be able to use the above to guestimate if it needs a rewire, generally 1960's houses and older if they have not had a rewire will likely need a complete rewire, mid 70's and newer you are probably ok as long as someone has not done some bodge job on an extension etc.

I would argue that 70's properties beginning to become due rewires. Certainly I would recommend someone doing a rewire if they have green slime issues. This is where in some late 60s and 70s houses, the plasticiser in the insulation in the wire in the walls had a chemical that is leeches out and reacts with the copper to produce a green oily deposit. This is fairly innocuous initially, however as the plasticiser leeches out, the insulation becomes brittle. You can't stop or reverse this process. Long term, the only answer is a full rewire.

I would also point out that most breakers are MCBs (minature circuit breakers). Modern CUs tend to have 2 RCDs which protect many circuits which will all have their own individual MCBs (unless the homeowner has paid for RCBOs). I stress this because the function of each is different.

MCBs protect against overload. That is running in excess of the rating of the breaker. This can either be a short circuit, or running too much on the one circuit. These generally have ratings in A. 6A is common for lighting circuits, 32A for ring circuits and cooker circuits and 40A for shower circuits. There are other ratings. For example my boiler circuit has a 15A breaker and my PV circuit has a 20A.

RCDs measure the current running out on the line (live) conductor, and compare it with that coming back on the neutral. If there is a difference of as little as 30mA, then it will trip. This difference would be caused by the current finding an alternative way of completing the circuit. For example someone touching an exposed live wire. You can tell an RCD because it has a test button.

If the homeowner has spared no expense, you may find that every breaker has a test button as well as a rating in A. These breakers are called RCBOs (residual current breakers with overload protection). These are RCDs and MCBs combined into one breaker. They are expensive so sadly aren't widely used. NB some older converter MCBs for Wylex standard or MEM fuseboxes had circular buttons along with a trip button. THESE ARE NOT RCDs.

If there are no RCDs in the consumer unit, even if it has MCBs, then factor in the cost of a CU replacement and electrical inspection into your costs once you own the property. IMHO RCDs are something that improve the safety of an existing installation and are money well spent. The installation won't be unsafe without them, however it is most definitely safer with them. This is notifiable work in England and Wales under Part P of the building regulations, and must either be installed by someone registered under a competent persons scheme (NICEIC, ELECSA, NAPIT or similar) or can be installed by anyone competent (including DIY) and inspected by building control. NB It is generally cheaper to pay someone registered to do the work, and you also have the advantage that most schemes offer a guarantee on the work.

I wouldn't recommend unscrewing a ceiling rose in a property you were viewing. many have been painted around, and a homeowner trying to sell would not be very happy about you damaging the ceiling finish, as until exchange you are not committed to buy the property.

Instead, look at the external condition of the ceiling roses. Are the pendant wires frayed or is the inner insulation showing? Are the bulb holders in good condition. If not, factor in replacing the ceiling roses. NB this is very easy to DIY and isn't notifiable.

Look at the sockets. Are they grubby? cracked? any burn marks? are they yellowed? Loose? For anything like this factor in replacement of the sockets, and possibly a wiring check if there is an indication of burning. If it is just a few faceplate replacements, this is not notifiable so again, if you know what you are doing it is DIYable.

Are there numerous sockets from different manufacturers at differing heights? This could indicate DIY work. For this I would recommend a full EICR. NB an extension where although different from the original property, all sockets are the same is probably not a cause for concern. Neither is the odd faceplate being different as these may just be replacements for faulty units.

With electrics, the rule should always be, if you are unsure or uncomfortable, seek professional advice.

martindow

I suspect that a large percentage of rewires are driven by a wish to have many more sockets than were normal years ago rather than danger or other problems with the existing wiring.

[Deleted User]

I have a BTL flat and the council want Landlords to do one, I had it finished last week at a cost of £255 ( something needed doing )


I don't know about private lived properties though.

cjmillsnun

To be honest if the wiring is pre existing there is no requirement to do so. If the electrics have obviously not been interfered with and are in good visual condition then most people won’t bother and 99% of the time they will be safe.

Almost nothing completed before 2016 will comply with current regs. But they should’ve been done to the regs that were current at the time.

mchale

BBH123 wrote: »

I have a BTL flat and the council want Landlords to do one, I had it finished last week at a cost of £255 ( something needed doing )


I don't know about private lived properties though.

Have you highlighted it to the council that once you have a change of tenant the certifcate is invalid.

Kpossible929

We’ve recently had this done, it’s not a requirement but we wanted it done for our own peace of mind and to know if/what works would be needed before we moved in so we could budget. The test cost us £162, outlined all the faults no matter how minor, told us when it was last inspected (1994!!), told us with the work done when they recommended it was next inspected, then gave us two quotes, one for the important works and one for the less important works. Like I say, definitely not a necessity and be prepared to pay for it yourself, as it’s not a legal requirement you can’t expect the buyer to pay, but if you want it for peace of mind then get it.

gld73

In Scotland, it's a legal requirement for landlords to get an EICR for any rental properties - a frustrating but necessary expense, especially as the check compares against latest electrical standards which change every couple of years, so there's always something recommended to be done! I've never got one for any house I've bought to live in myself though, I'd only consider it if I was buying an old house with dodgy looking electrics - but in that case I'd probably be budgeting for a re-wire anyway....

ProDave

gld73 wrote: »

In Scotland, it's a legal requirement for landlords to get an EICR for any rental properties - a frustrating but necessary expense, especially as the check compares against latest electrical standards which change every couple of years, so there's always something recommended to be done! I've never got one for any house I've bought to live in myself though, I'd only consider it if I was buying an old house with dodgy looking electrics - but in that case I'd probably be budgeting for a re-wire anyway....

Not quite so.

The biggest myth / scam is t say it MUST have a new metal consumer unit.

An old plastic one providing it meets all other requirements would be a C3 so would not stop the report being "satisfactory"