PCN for Hillingdon Tube Station

Coupon-mad

So next step is to formulate a strategy. Sadly there is no "no keeper liability" get out as the PCN is titled as "ANPR Postal Notice to Keeper".

The POFA has nothing to do which what the document is entitled!

Why not simply copy any other NCP POPLA appeal about a postal ticket? Search the forum.

financerulez

mcbearington wrote: »

Yes, I have a POPLA code.

Interesting.

Can you post a redacted version of their original NtK? (Apologies if I've missed it.)

We need to know whether they are alleging a breach of contract, a breach of byelaws, or a mishmash. The fact they've issued a POPLA code would imply it's not a byelaws issue.

waamo

financerulez wrote: »

Interesting.

Can you post a redacted version of their original NtK? (Apologies if I've missed it.)

We need to know whether they are alleging a breach of contract, a breach of byelaws, or a mishmash. The fact they've issued a POPLA code would imply it's not a byelaws issue.

Indeed it's not entirely clear what they are claiming this ticket is if they are offering a POPLA code. If they are claiming byelaws this could be interesting.

Coupon-mad

NCP never claim byelaws, so it's a straightforward POPLA appeal copied from another ANPR one.

mcbearington

this is the original. alleged breach of car park terms and conditions of use.

KeithP

They seem to have got the wording wrong here:



It doesn't make sense.

It simply isn't what POFA says it must state.

mcbearington

Thanks Keith. I think that therefore relates to the template I copied in for section 2 of my appeal draft below.

Handbags-at-dawn

KeithP wrote: »

They seem to have got the wording wrong here:



It doesn't make sense.

It simply isn't what POFA says it must state.

Added to which, it's a completely false representation because they have no right to take recovery action against the keeper on land subject to the TfL Railway Byelaws 2011. They should be prosecuted for offences under the Fraud Act 2006 and the Protection from Unfair Trading Regs 2008. Please complain to Trading Standards.

Also, have a look at post 18 on this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73892395#Comment_73892395. The POPLA assessor seemed to think that if the PCN is not issued under Byelaws, the land becomes relevant land under POFA. So your appeal needs to spell it out: land subject to Byelaws is not relevant land, end of story, and NCP's method of enforcement makes no difference to that.

financerulez

Handbags-at-dawn wrote: »

Added to which, it's a completely false representation because they have no right to take recovery action against the keeper on land subject to the TfL Railway Byelaws 2011. They should be prosecuted for offences under the Fraud Act 2006 and the Protection from Unfair Trading Regs 2008. Please complain to Trading Standards.

This is a major point.

Find out if the land is subject to byelaws. If it is - mention that in your paragraph about POFA - that Reg Keeper liability can't apply as it's not relevant land.

As soon as POPLA hear anything about byelaws they'll ditch it I imagine.

Handbags-at-dawn

This FOIR confirms all TfL tube station car parks are subject to the Byelaws (see at bottom of letter, 3rd para from the end):
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tube_station_car_parks#incoming-1011604

Unfortunately the list of car parks in the website linked to the request seems to have been removed. However, you can see Hillingdon in NCP's list of London Underground station car parks here:
https://www.ncp.co.uk/parking-solutions/london-underground-car-parks/