Unregistered Solar PV - FIT

Supersven

Hi - looking for some advice please. I am certain this will have been covered before, so apologies in advance...
We are about to buy a house with Solar PV panels. The house is approx' 2 years old and was constructed with these panels which are owned outright (along with every other house on the development). It transpires that these panels have never been registered for the FIT and as they were commissioned in 2015 and have missed the deadline it seems to me that we cannot benefit from the FIT. I understand the basics of this but this seems ludicrous that we will be feeding in to the grid, in the same way as our neighbours but simply because some paperwork was not completed we don't benefit financially even though the Panels are identical. Is there no way around this?
Second point - assuming we cannot benefit then my thoughts are that we would be better served to store as much of the solar power we create using something like the Tesla Powerwall. How does this work practically, would we be able to store enough energy to be self sufficient all year round?
Thanks in advance.

Martyn1981

Supersven wrote: »

Hi - looking for some advice please. I am certain this will have been covered before, so apologies in advance...
We are about to buy a house with Solar PV panels. The house is approx' 2 years old and was constructed with these panels which are owned outright (along with every other house on the development). It transpires that these panels have never been registered for the FIT and as they were commissioned in 2015 and have missed the deadline it seems to me that we cannot benefit from the FIT. I understand the basics of this but this seems ludicrous that we will be feeding in to the grid, in the same way as our neighbours but simply because some paperwork was not completed we don't benefit financially even though the Panels are identical. Is there no way around this?
Second point - assuming we cannot benefit then my thoughts are that we would be better served to store as much of the solar power we create using something like the Tesla Powerwall. How does this work practically, would we be able to store enough energy to be self sufficient all year round?
Thanks in advance.

Hiya and welcome.

Yes ...... the system is that ludicrous. The new (in 2015) government pretty much did everything it could to destroy the PV and on-shore wind industries and this was one of their changes. Another, just as daft is that extensions can no longer apply for FiT, so an existing PV'er could add a system, but not be able to claim on that too.

One possibility (which will make more sense in a minute*) is that if you've never applied for FiTs, then you might be able to apply if you add another small system, but just on the new system, I'm not sure?

Regarding storage, batteries will make sense, but probably not today. They are still too expensive and the warranted cycles aren't high enough to get your money back, but as well as prices falling, we may well see life expectancies and importantly warranted life cycles increasing. Life expectancy is important as the cost of storing the leccy reflects the amount of times the battery cycles. Life expectancy may be much longer than the warranty, but we don't know yet, quick examples (with simplified numbers):

Current(ish) Powerwall II £6,000 divided by 5,000 warranted cycles at 13kWh = 9.2p/kWh.

2-3yrs time guess, PW II, £4,000 with 6,000 cycle warranty = 5.1p/kWh.

As above but with in use evidence suggested actual life expectancy is more like 10,000 cycles = 3p/kWh.


You will find loads of info on this thread, and the evolution of the discussion (as we slowly worked out some of the questions):

On-grid domestic battery storage

*jumping backwards, so what was I hinting at. Well a battery install attracts 20% VAT, but only 5% VAT if installed at the same time as a PV system.

A small system of say a couple of panels and a small 500W inverter, all installed may be perhaps a grand, but the 15% saving on a large batt like the Powerwall II might be £500+, so worth considering, especially if you (not having a FiT) are allowed to apply for a FiT on the new system ...... but I'm not sure if this is correct, certainly worth considering.

Ectophile

Martyn1981 describes one option. By coincidence, as of today, I'm now powered by solar and battery. My old inverter went pop just before Christmas, so I now have a new inverter with a small battery attached. This should work well in sunny weather, as it can charge up during the day, giving me free electricity in the evening. On wet horrible days in the winter, it's unlikely to store enough power to be much use at all.

Another popular option, if you have a traditional hot water system with a hot tank and immersion heater, is to use a solar diverter to give you free hot water. Again, this will only really work when it's sunny. If you currently have a combi-boiler, then the cost of installing it is unlikely ever to pay back. The diverters can also power electric heating, which may be useful for a limited time in the spring and autumn.

pile-o-stone

Can you not register your panels at the current FIT rates? I believe they are @4.11p per KWh for installations below 10KW. You'd also qualify for the export payment.

Martyn1981

pile-o-stone wrote: »

Can you not register your panels at the current FIT rates? I believe they are @4.11p per KWh for installations below 10KW. You'd also qualify for the export payment.

The problem here is that the government decided to apply a deadline (Mch 2016 I think) for all older systems to be registered, after that they are not allowed because .......... nope can't come up with a sensible reason.

pile-o-stone

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The new (in 2015) government pretty much did everything it could to destroy the PV and on-shore wind industries and this was one of their changes. Another, just as daft is that extensions can no longer apply for FiT, so an existing PV'er could add a system, but not be able to claim on that too.

I was appalled when support was effectively withdrawn for solar and on shore wind, but I now think the decision, though made for all the wrong reasons, was a correct one. Government support was focused on off-shore wind and the UK is now a world leader in this technology, leveraging on our North Sea Oil experience. The UK has the largest off shore wind array and is currently in the process of building an even bigger array.

Off shore wind is more expensive to install, but generates significantly more energy than on-shore and the wind is more reliable off-shore. Plus there is much reduced NIMBYism with the much larger turbines often based out of sight of land.

We installed additional solar panels recently and though we didn't qualify for FIT payments, it wasn't a problem as solar panels have fallen to the price where they still pay for themselves. What is a little unfair is that there is no export payment, though to mitigate this, we receive 50% export payments for our original 4kw solar array, yet we hardly export anything because we are a heavy user of electricity during daylight hours and we have an iBoost product that diverts excess generation to our water cylinder.

hollie.weimeraner

pile-o-stone wrote: »

much larger turbines often based out of sight of land.

When was the last time you went to the coast? We have holidayed in Norfolk, visited North Wales and the Humber estuary in the last 12 months and there are 100's of visible windfarms, but not that I disagree with your comments, just that windfarms even at sea are visible.

ard123en

What happens if you get a new inverter installed can it then get FIT ?

If not think I'd swap it out for and off grid inverter like a pip 4048 and store and use onsite

Depends how DIY electronics handy you are but I've got 2.5kWh of storage built from old laptop cells with another in production. The cells have cost me nothing except a few beers along the way it's slow process but like the challenge.
:eek:
I charge the batteries from mains using the pip when solar edge is exporting future will add second panels direct to the pip

Have a look on DIY Powerwalls site if interested

theboylard

Hi ard123en,

If you were getting FiT before your inverter goes pop, then nothing changes, you replace with whatever inverter takes your fancy/is supplied under waranty and you carry on recieving the FiT.

If you change/add to the panels themselves on the roof, then you should declare that and depending on the change, you may get a reduced FiT or nothing? (needs clarification)

If you missed the cutoff for FiT registration, then no amount of replacing will change that

Martyn1981

pile-o-stone wrote: »

I was appalled when support was effectively withdrawn for solar and on shore wind, but I now think the decision, though made for all the wrong reasons, was a correct one. Government support was focused on off-shore wind and the UK is now a world leader in this technology, leveraging on our North Sea Oil experience. The UK has the largest off shore wind array and is currently in the process of building an even bigger array.

Hiya. Love wind, and UK off-shore potential is fantastic, but I'm not sure we are world leaders. We do have the most off-shore wind capacity, but the contracts are with foreign firms as they are way ahead of us.

Not all bad news though as some of these firms are manufacturing parts for the WT's in the UK.

No probs with subsidy support for off-shore wind, but that doesn't explain why a smaller amount couldn't be offered for on-shore wind and PV, as these industries were virtually killed off from 2015 onwards - though they may start to make a comeback this year or next via subsidy free systems, just a shame that we've lost around 3yrs, and a lot of momentum.

pile-o-stone

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The problem here is that the government decided to apply a deadline (Mch 2016 I think) for all older systems to be registered, after that they are not allowed because .......... nope can't come up with a sensible reason.

Thanks Mart, I didn't realise this. I can kinda understand the logic for the FIT payments, either (like the OP) you have bought a house with them already fitted and so don't have the financial outlay of buying the panels to recoup, or you had them fitted but didn't need the FIT payments to subsidise them and so didn't bother to register them. What isn't fair is for them (and extensions) to not qualify for export payments.

We recently applied to have an additional 3KW of solar added and the DNO says that we have to pay £1500 to 'strengthen the grid'. So we receive no FITs, nothing for the energy we export, we have to pay to connect to the grid AND now the National Grid is talking about increasing standing charges for people with solar installed, It does seem that the government and their Big Energy paymasters really don't want Joe Public to have any sort of energy independence.