Carillion

Glen_Clark

GreatApe wrote: »

The real losers are the banks and share holders who will end up with a £2-3 billion loss.

That includes me through my index funds. But Banks and Shareholders chose to take a risk. Taxpayers did not. The biggest losers are small construction companies (the sort of enterprises this country most needs) who are driven to bankruptcy through not being paid. Suffering the humiliation of not being able to pay their suppliers and employees either. The workers are finished on the spot without even being paid for workdoneand materials used. Whilst Carillion CEO continues to receive his £665,000 salary - plus bonuses, till October.

GreatApe wrote: »

Labor trying its slimy best to link this to free market capatilism.

and isn't it?

antrobus

Glen_Clark wrote: »

Report in the FT shows increasing numbers of the Carillion shareholders are small retail investors. Shares moving on to platforms like H&L, AJ Bell etc
Wheras the big winners are the Hedge funds shorting the shares - selling shares in advance before the price crashed to said small retail investors. ...

Carillion was the no 1 shorted stock. But that information is publically available.

Glen_Clark wrote: »

...
Some say the Tory Government created false confidence in Carillion by awarding them £billion taxpayer contracts with no due diligence - so their Tory friends in the City could make a fortune at the little man's expense by shorting the shares....

Some say that the earth is flat.

Glen_Clark wrote: »

...
So I had a look to see how the other side are presenting it.
Daily Mail headline is about supermarket carrier bags
Wheras the Express transposes photos of Corbyn on to photos of Blair and Brown when they were creating PFI as if Corbyn had something to do with it, and neglecting to mention Corbyn voted against PFI

The Daily Mail has been full of Carillion stories. Just because you can't find them doesn't mean they aren't there.:)

By the way, what exactly is it that the Mail (and the Express) are the other side of?

GreatApe

Glen_Clark wrote: »

That includes me through my index funds. But Banks and Shareholders chose to take a risk. Taxpayers did not. The biggest losers are small construction companies (the sort of enterprises this country most needs) who are driven to bankruptcy through not being paid. Suffering the humiliation of not being able to pay their suppliers and employees either. The workers are finished on the spot without even being paid for workdoneand materials used. Whilst Carillion CEO continues to receive his £665,000 salary - plus bonuses, till October.

and isn't it?

The suppliers if they go to the wall had poor or non existant risk management

I know exactly what they are feeling. Probably rage and anger that's what I felt when a company who owned us for work done went bust. But we survived and even if it took us down it would have meant the banks took the lions share of the losses we could have closed and then reopened as a new entirety

And no company failures is a feature of free market capatilism not a fault of it.
In the most free markets there are hundreds of new entrants every year and hundreds of companies exiting each year. The alternative is British Steel a company I USD to work for. They had 30,000 workers just at the site I was at 80-90% would do nothing. Many would have a second job and just turn up to their British steel jobs to sleep.

antrobus

Glen_Clark wrote: »

... Whilst Carillion CEO continues to receive his £665,000 salary - plus bonuses, till October.
...

Don't be silly. Carillion is in liquidation. He will not continue to receive his salary.

Glen_Clark

antrobus wrote: »

Don't be silly. Carillion is in liquidation. He will not continue to receive his salary.

I think that was still correct when I posted it.
According to an update on the FT website at 18.58 today Richard Howson CEO was due to receive his £660,000 salary and £28,000 benefits until October. But there has been a public outcry over it. The Insolvency Service said today it will not now be paid. But their statement implied Directors will be allowed to keep past bonuses - Since they changed the rules in 2016 to prevent their bonuses being clawed back in the event of collapse.

Glen_Clark

antrobus wrote: »

The Daily Mail has been full of Carillion stories. Just because you can't find them doesn't mean they aren't there.

I just looked at the front page as I wouldn't waste any more time on it.
I don't know if they had put Carillion on the front page in an earlier edition, before suddenly taking it off again like Osborne's Evening Standard - link: https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/01/16/obvious-evening-standard-took-carillion-off-front-page-image/

Thrugelmir

GreatApe wrote: »

The suppliers if they go to the wall had poor or non existant risk management

Smaller companies have little choice other than to accept the terms on offer if they wish to do business. Credit insurance isn't an option either.

GreatApe

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Smaller companies have little choice other than to accept the terms on offer if they wish to do business. Credit insurance isn't an option either.

Then they are over reaching themselves.
Its a risk they are taking they can't complain when it doesn't work out.
You could even make the argument that the small companies going bust is a good thing. Those who did not price risk correctly and stole businesses from the competition should feel some pain.

Overall I'm not sure what everyone is so worked up about.
Literally thousands of companies go bust each week and thousands of new ones are created each week
It is what allows free markets to work and prosper. The alternative is state industry and commence. As an ex British steel employee i can tell you that is much worse. We had 30,000 men at our site and needed only about 1/10th as many. People would literally come in and sleep and go home. 27,000 people turning up to do nothing thanks to the power of the unions.

It isn't even a real jobs loss. Almost all the jobs will be replaced. The dinner ladies or office cleaners working for carillon will be rehired pretty much instantly. Even big projects like HS2 are in no danger the jobs are created by the demand for goods and services. This company going bust doesn't impact the demand for goods and services so overall demand for work/jobs is more or less the same.

gfplux

May and Macron will hold a joint press conference today around 17.00 UK time. This must watch moment will be live on 24 hour news channels.

Sorry wrong thread.

gfplux

As many on this thread have said going bankrupt is a normal risk of business although more likely if the business in badly managed.
There are always people who can make money out of other people mysery but it’s good to know they share out the cash.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-branded-total-hypocrite-trousering-11868280?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=b338921a7e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_01_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-b338921a7e-190026745

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“Theresa May has been branded a “total hypocrite” for accepting £50,000 from a firm accused of making money off Carillion’s failure.

Naya Capital Management UK, which made the generous donation to the Tories a week before the general election, is one of a string of hedge funds that bet on the company’s share price falling.

Their value fell more than two-thirds in July, with Naya reportedly making £7.6million.”
——