ECP Country Park

shaleman

I have now received an email reply from POPLA which allows me to open the PDF submitted by ECP.
They have not responded to the "No right to claim under POFA" argument but have on the other arguments about signage, landowner authority, keeper liability.

I will draft a reply to POPLA rebutting ECP's evidence, is it worth mentioning that they have not responded on the No right to claim under POFA issue?

System

I will draft a reply to POPLA rebutting ECP's evidence, is it worth mentioning that they have not responded on the No right to claim under POFA issue?

It will be moot if the driver is identified but if not, then run that.

And you can run the second argument that Edna has put up as (if Edna is correct) ECP may not want to go there and will drop the case.

shaleman

Noted and thank you

System

And you can run the second argument that Edna has put up as (if Edna is correct) ECP may not want to go there and will drop the case.

Not been clear enough about Edna's point. Though it was about POFA, it should be used to raise the issue of standing - similar to Indigo's standing in byelaws cases. You will be saying that there is no "creditor" as claimed by ECP but a statutory debt if proven. It would be dealt with by KCC using their powers and not ECP.

shaleman

Here is my draft response to the ECP evidence pack sent to POPLA.

As the Registered Keeper I contend that ECP have no right to claim under POFA. The parking places at Lullingstone Country Park, having been provided by Kent County Council (a "traffic authority" as defined under Schedule 4) are not relevant land by virtue of Paragraph 3 (1) (b) of Schedule 4.
Statutory control (including Orders in Council) is covered separately under Paragraph 3 (1) (c) i.e. any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control is not relevant land. The Parking charge notice amount of £70 which is claimed by ECP is therefore invalid and no “creditor" exists. If a statutory debt is proven this would be dealt with by Kent County Council using their powers and not by ECP.

ECP have provided no evidence of landowner authority for parking enforcement in the Car Park at Lullingstone Country Park, Eynsford. Instead they have supplied a copy of a contract for parking enforcement in Brockhill Country Park, Hythe.

ECP have omitted the picture of the grey wooden sign at the entrance to the Car Park where the carved wording is too low on the sign to be read without the driver stopping.

As the Registered Keeper I object to ECP using my name in the signage section of their evidence pack claiming that I was the driver when in fact I was not.

Castle

The terms and conditions for a season ticket does mention "Penalty Notice Charge" in paragraph 12; (although that's probably Kent CC being too lazy to find out the truth);-
http://www.kent.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/67867/Season-Ticket-Terms-and-Conditions.pdf


(Just seen Edna Basher has already mentioned it!)

shaleman

Thank you.

Is there any advantage in replying early to the evidence posted at POPLA by ECP or should I just wait until the 7th day?

Coupon-mad

Never wait until the seventh day, because the day POPLA first emailed you was day one, meaning you only ever have six full days and the Portal door then closes.

claxtome

Is there any advantage in replying early to the evidence posted at POPLA by ECP or should I just wait until the 7th day?

No advantage I can see just make sure you don't miss the deadline.

Take note what Coupon-Mad said.

I would send it in when happy with it.

shaleman

My appeal was successful.

Edna Basher you are a star, and thank you to all the other contributors to this thread.

Extract from POPLA Assessor's rationale for decision
"As the land appears to be council owned then I am not satisfied that the requirements of PoFA 2012 have been met. Therefore, the keeper cannot be held responsible. As such from the evidence provided, I conclude that the operator issued the PCN incorrectly."