An ethical question for you: me vs the CSA

Batgirl

I have been here and done all this but I was the CHILD. So have a different perspective. My Dad had to pay 5p per year maintenace for me and my sister (he got divorced from my Mum the same day as his boss so his boss falsified all his pay statements etc saying he was on a pittance so only had to pay minimum support.) My Dad enjoyed 2 holidays a year abroad and my Mum used to turn everything off when we went to bed as she couldn't afford heating and elec etc, she used to read sat by the window so she could see the book under the street light, and I always wonderd why she bathed in the dark. My Mum new full well if she kicked off he could be inprisoned for non payment of support. But............although I know all this now as a child I knew nothing about any of this. Each week my Mum happily packed us off to our Dads and his new wifes ( the woman he was having an affair with) and had to listen to us going on and on about all the fancy food we got there. Even the day he married his mistress she wasn't told so we were all ready in jeans and wellies until she found out and rushed to get us into wedding getup.

Anyway I will stop waffling and get to my point. Mum packed us off every week and we soon discovered ourselves what an !!!! our Dad was, I used to rant at my Mum about what an !!!! he was and she would just reply "You shouldn't say that he's your Dad." she always encouraged our relationship and through this we had the opportunity to see what he is really like. I now don't see my Dad but I am sure that if Mum hadn't encourage our relationship and had stopped him seeing us I would have wanted to see him all the more. Also if you stop the access and he doesn't care and it never starts up again, how will you explain this to you daughter now and also when she asks why she doesn't see her Dad when she is a stroppy teenager.

Your daughter may go without a few things ( as I did) but I am far closer to my Mum because we had hard times, so think about this when you hand her over each week.

LookingAhead

Hope you get things sorted soon lauradora.

I've never met my Dad - he b*ggered off when I was 3 months old and never paid a penny in maintenance.

We didn't have a pot to you know what in and I was on free school dinners too my whole schooled life. Gotta say - it didn't stop me making great friends (some of which I am still mates with today...over 2 decades later!) and having some great memories of childhood. We didn't make an issue of it and ignored anyone else who might try and attach a stigma to it...so don't you go down that path thinking it's terrible! You take what you can when you need it and don't let your DD think it's an issue.

As for the Dad - I agree with Batgirl. Your daughter will grow up and see him for what he is if he doesn't change his ways but she will be in awe how you didn't try and wedge ill feeling between them.

But you do need to tackle the issue with him of the non payments - he might even be wondering to himself how he's got away with it so long! Don't let him make you out to be mug. Remind him of his responsibilities in no uncertain terms!

Good luck.

Sorry if I have waffled! (I do that!)

LA x

Batgirl

Looking ahead has just reminded me of a few more points ( I know I know I go on) I had free scholl dinners and my friends all thought it was fab because i never felt hungry at midday so would buy everyone ice creams with my free school dinner money.

Also wanted to say if you have the balls to stop access then you must have the balls to ask him where the hell his money is. if he knows every week he comes to collect your daughter he is going to have to answer to you unless he is completely made of stone he will either feel guilty or embarrassed enough to bloomin pay.

Hope you get this resolved if not come back and rant to us :beer:

Broken_hearted

You don't have the right to stop the child seeing it's father, money is a seperate issue.

dsljfreeman

The csa is the worst thing to be involved in, for the mother and the absent father, we (I'm the stepmother) have to pay the csa an obscene amount of money and we're not sure that the whole amount is working it's way to hubby's ex, they were on bad terms a while back, but now the amounts are just getting silly, and gladly hubby and his ex are back on very good terms so hopefully they can work something out between them, I would hate to think that the government are taking lots of money from us and not giving the full amount to his kids.

There are a hell of a lot of good dads out there who are made a fool of b'cos of the csa and it's all thanks to those dads who don't care about the welfare of their children and would rather fund there own extravagant lifestyle than spend time and money on their kids.

I'm sorry, lol, I got totally off subject there, but I really hate the csa, in answer to your question, if I was in your situation I would really want to hurt the ex too but using a child is not the way to go.

I really hope you get something sorted with the csa, or else talk to your ex, it may be that he is paying and the money is in limbo, the csa love to muck things up xx

bathgatebuyer

Again, I was the child in a similar situation. My parents divorced when I was really young and my mum got sod all money from my Dad to help her look after me (the split happened when I was 2). I hadn't appreciated how difficult balancing the books can be until I hit my 20s and had to do it myself even without a child to look after! I had no contact with my Dad at all until I was about 13, and although I always knew he was giving nothing to my wonderful Mum to help her out, I always wondered what he'd be like.

I know you must be raging as hell with your ex, but believe me, your daughter must be allowed to make up her own mind about him. You'll do much more damage to her if she has to wonder what he's like and loses contact herself. It's rotten growing up and having to face other kids, "Your Dad didn't want you.........................", or even in class when teachers would ask, "Tell the class, what do your Mum and Dad for a living", and be sat totally red-faced and having to say, "I don't know what my Dad does - he left" while all the other kids laugh. Not nice. Give her the chance to know her father and if he's no-good, she'll learn that herself in time. Just be ready to pick up the pieces and love her enough for two parents.

By all means, you can hate and detest him, and she may very well hate him one day too, but she has to be given that chance to make up her own mind. Some day she'll realise that he didn't contribute what he could have done for you and age can make you realise a few home truths about a parent. My Dad was a no good layabout, who left my beautiful intelligent hard working Mum for some scrubber not worth a 1000th of what my Mum is. I don't take any pleasure out of saying that about him, but it's the truth. No good decent person would leave someone else to look after HIS child while he played at being the man about town, and certainly not someone I think deserving of the title 'my Dad'. (As an aside, I only learned recently that after I was born, my Dad sold of a lot of the furniture my Gran bought for them when they married to pay for goodness knows what - didn't tell my Mum, she just returned from work one day to find half the house gone.............At least I know where I get my appalling money management skills from!)

Mozette

HHH wrote: »

No matter how hard it is for you it is not your daughters fault and you should not deny her seeing him. If you think of it that way round rather than him seeing her it may? seem easier. He may only stick her in front of the video but as she grows up she will be able to make her own decision about if she sees him or not, this usually starts when children want to do things with their friends, my 6 yr old godchild sometimes elects not to see dad preferring to go to a birthday party or something but I know if mum had stopped contact he would be very resentful. Please please try not to say bad things about him in front of her I can understand your anger but remind yourself that you are the grown up ( as someone else has already pointed out) pat yourself on the back for that! If you cant talk to him why dont you write a letter explaining about the money and how it upsets you seeing him with apparently plenty when he should be supporting his child. That way you avoid the possible arguement in front of your child. Good luck and remember parenting is the hardest job you'll ever do and you dont even get paid!

Agree with what HHH said. I've seen friends' children used as weapons and it's awful. But I do think you should ask him, or his parents if you can speak more easily to them. It MAY not be entirely his fault, at least give him the benefit of the doubt until you know for a fact that he is a complete to$$pot. But let your daughter find that out for herself, if it is the case.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

nicola1982_2

It's also worth mentioning that if you are on IS then you will not get the full amount regardless of what he pays. When my OH ex was on IS she got £10 of the £25 pw he paid. His income went up and he was made to pay the CSA more and she still only got £10. What annoyed all of us is that he could've used that money to buy his son new clothes/books/toys etc but instead it was been eaten up by the system. As a system the CSA does not have the best interests of the child at heart. It is about recouperating costs and sadly cannot be trusted at all.

Cheery_Daff

Oh lauradora, I do feel for you

I'm with most of the others on this, though - don't get your daughter involved.

I speak from experience - like Batgirl, I was the child in a similar (ish) situation. My parents were young, my dad was irresponsible and eventually my mum had enough of his philandering and being put down and she left. I was 3, my sister 8 months. My Dad stayed in their house, while she went to live with her mother.

By the time anyone got round to telling her she was entitled to at least half of the house, he'd ruined it. Put a sledgehammer through the upstairs floor (trying to fix a leak, apparently...) etc, and refused to move out. It was eventually sold for a complete pittance, which she didn't see anything of.

They went to court to sort maintenance, settled at £20 per week for then, which he paid when we all went to his mother's for tea on a Sunday.

Over the years the CSA tried to get hold of him, but we only had a phone number, nobody, not even his mother, knew where he lived.

Sometimes he didn't give us the £20, then my mum struggled as she didn't get extra income support that week, because it was a mostly informal arrangement.

I only found all this out recently (I'm 27 now)

However, she NEVER said a bad word against him, NEVER. She didn't say anything when he'd promised to take us out and didn't turn up, when he spent the entire time we were there watching the tv, when he brought his new electric guitar to show us when we were struggling to buy food...

We still see him, and can now accept him as the immature boy not ready to grow up that he is

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your daughter will make up her own mind - if you stop her seeing her dad at this age, what she'll understand is THAT, not WHY you did it, and she may well end up resenting you for it. Not good.

Speak to him, however much you'd rather avoid it. Then if he won't answer, go back to the CSA, and to the citizen's advice people too.

Keep yer chin up, you're doing a grand job by the sounds of it

And free school dinners didn't do me any harm either - at least they're relatively decent these days!

(sorry for all the waffling...)

Daffs
x

joeblack066

I have been in this situation years ago. My husband ran off with a wealthy woman and left me with 3 boys. He never paid a penny for 6 years. I never stopped contact, and never slated him infront of the boys. They have grown up well adjusted, and have a good relationship with thier Dad, but they know him through and through. If he tries to 'buy' them now, as he has done as they've got older, they view it from the 'he ran off and left us when we were kids, so we'll take what he has to offer now with no problem' angle. They know who brought them up. They know I have always been broke. Yes it hurt like hell when THEY took my kids to Florida etc, but that was MY problem not the kids'. Continue to fight with the CSA. It took me 6 years but I got there in the end.
Are you on IS or working btw?