Is this renovation budget reasonable?

orangesmartie

szivarvanyftw wrote: »

I bought a 3 bed detached house recently with my partner, and need to modernise it as it has not been touched in over 20 years. We're first time buyers and not much DIY experience in practice, although we have done some bits and bobs previously. So, thought I'd ask if you think it is reasonable to expect to be able to get the below works done for under £30k?

• Remove old kitchen
• Knock through kitchen wall to open up dining room - check with structural engineer if viable
• Remove floors
• Rewiring
• Built in cupboard conversion to small ensuite, including moving boiler downstairs along same wall
• Replastering everywhere
• New floors
• Repainting everything
• Kitchen installation

We've found a kitchen for around £6k that we like, but for the rest, not sure what to expect - the ranges provided online are very broad! We'd need tradesmen to do most of it - the only things we can do ourselves are laying flooring (laminate mostly everwhere except kitchen where we'd have tiles), painting, and attempting to remove parts of the old kitchen, avoiding parts where we could be electrocuted :rotfl:
We're in North Oxfordshire if that helps - not London prices.

I've just had to pretty much the same works as you've listed above and I've so far spent £30k. My house is a 1930s house and hadn't been updated since the late 40s/early 50s (judging by the newspaper under the carpet). I still have outstanding the kitchen refit (design/installation), repainting everywhere and the flooring in all of the house except the kitchen (which has already been tiled). I had to get a steel beam in for the removed wall. That didn't cost a huge amount, but add on structural engineer costs/calcs and building control inspection.

I did all of the wallpaper stripping myself and will being doing most of the repainting myself, with family helping out with wallpapering.

Things i learned: Builders are messy !!!!!!s and don't tidy up after themselves, nor treat my home with respect and care.

There are always extra, unexpected costs - mine was a water pipe, where there was no water pipe marked on any plans or maps - not even at the water board, and I had to pay for them to come out and inspect it, so then we could continue with moving the toilet.

Things will always take longer than you expect. I'm 16 weeks into a 12 week renovation.

Don't underestimate the amount of rubbish that will be generated and how to get rid of it = be it skips, tip runs or the builders doing it.

I got a number of quotes before I started, both for individual components of the job, and as an overall project. In the end I went with a contractor who has all the various trades working for him so that he could co-ordinate work schedules and the order in which to do things.

I'm in South Devon, so not London prices either.

szivarvanyftw

TheCyclingProgrammer wrote: »

What makes you think it needs a complete rewire? You will almost certainly need upgrades (the consumer unit for starters) if its non-compliant and you want to have any work done that involves new circuits (especially for the kitchen) but it doesn't necessarily need a total rewire unless its severely lacking in sockets. Get an electrician in to advise. Did you get an electrics condition report when you bought it? If not it might be worth paying the £150-200 to get one.

Hmm you do have a point. I don't know that much about electrics but a few people told us if it's this old it needs a rewire. I suppose I assumed the wiring itself degrades over time or something?
But indeed we might not want to add sockets or extra circuits to certain rooms - are you saying that is entirely fine as long as the consumer unit is upgraded? I'm wary of electricians advising a complete rewire since it's better business for them and we clearly have no idea...

orangesmartie wrote: »

I've just had to pretty much the same works as you've listed above and I've so far spent £30k. My house is a 1930s house and hadn't been updated since the late 40s/early 50s (judging by the newspaper under the carpet). I still have outstanding the kitchen refit (design/installation), repainting everywhere and the flooring in all of the house except the kitchen (which has already been tiled). I had to get a steel beam in for the removed wall. That didn't cost a huge amount, but add on structural engineer costs/calcs and building control inspection.

I did all of the wallpaper stripping myself and will being doing most of the repainting myself, with family helping out with wallpapering.

Things i learned: Builders are messy !!!!!!s and don't tidy up after themselves, nor treat my home with respect and care.

There are always extra, unexpected costs - mine was a water pipe, where there was no water pipe marked on any plans or maps - not even at the water board, and I had to pay for them to come out and inspect it, so then we could continue with moving the toilet.

Things will always take longer than you expect. I'm 16 weeks into a 12 week renovation.

Don't underestimate the amount of rubbish that will be generated and how to get rid of it = be it skips, tip runs or the builders doing it.

I got a number of quotes before I started, both for individual components of the job, and as an overall project. In the end I went with a contractor who has all the various trades working for him so that he could co-ordinate work schedules and the order in which to do things.

I'm in South Devon, so not London prices either.

Urgh. I hope we don't need to spend more becuase we literally don't have any more money.
However, would you say we can potentially leave the kitchen as is (as that seems to be the biggest self contained investment) and do everything else first, and live with the smelly ugly old kitchen for a while longer? Worried about extra mess during kitchen fitting, in my shiny new home later on!

cranford wrote: »

Well maybe I can save you some money on the kitchen if you are going to DIY! I have done a few in the past but life has go easier for DIY. The units now come pre-assembled and the range of sizes has increased somewhat. I last used [link removed because I'm a new user] who have colour matching cabinets and plinths and cornices that can save you money and a vast range. Much cheaper than the normal DIY sheds and national kitchen chains.

I took a look at this site and they do look good! Might be tricky to get accurate estimates comparable to our quotes from elsewhere but I will use Wren's design service and then see if I can find similar cabinets for a better price on DIY kitchens. Is that sort of what you did? Without a design service I can't decide how many/what type of cabinets to get!

Doozergirl

I wouldn’t touch Wren with a barge pole.

orangesmartie

szivarvanyftw wrote: »

Urgh. I hope we don't need to spend more becuase we literally don't have any more money.
However, would you say we can potentially leave the kitchen as is (as that seems to be the biggest self contained investment) and do everything else first, and live with the smelly ugly old kitchen for a while longer? Worried about extra mess during kitchen fitting, in my shiny new home later on!

I'm in the same position of not having any more money to do the kitchen because I went over my original budget. So what I've done is removed the old kitchen (which was about 4 cupboards and a sink, in a tiny room and knocked the kitchen and dining room together, had all the electrics done and plastered, painted and floored the new big room.


I've then been 'donated' a kitchen that my builders were removing from another job and that will be my kitchen for the next year or so while I save up for my dream kitchen. I've had all the lighting and electric points done to the plan and spec of my new kitchen, so that we don't have to go chopping into walls again. Theoretically we just need to install the new cabinets - all the pipes and electrics are there for the island etc when I'm ready.


If the cabinets/appliances you have are still useable and you could live with it for a year or so and you're intending to keep the same lay out in your new kitchen, then yes I'd say you could leave the kitchen as is for the moment. Just get some sugar soap, or stardrops and a lot of elbow grease to give it a good clean. if you're changing he flooring/electrics in the kitchen that can be done around existing cabinetry (I think).


It would (in my amateur opinion) be a false economy not to do electrics/plumbing/flooring in the kitchen if you're doing it everywhere else in the house. Do all of that once, and then all you have to replace in the kitchen is paint and cabinetry down the line.

szivarvanyftw

Doozergirl wrote: »

I wouldn’t touch Wren with a barge pole.

That in itself isn't very helpful - what makes you say that?
From what we've seen, they are the best combo of structure/design and value for money compared to Homebase/B&Q/IKEA and quite possibly DIY-Kitchens too based on initial calculations.

orangesmartie wrote: »

It would (in my amateur opinion) be a false economy not to do electrics/plumbing/flooring in the kitchen if you're doing it everywhere else in the house. Do all of that once, and then all you have to replace in the kitchen is paint and cabinetry down the line.

Yeah, we'd definitely do that. But might not be able to afford the actual cabinets etc - so might go a few months with just a table to prepare food, store everything else in boxes or something, and just get the cooker, dishwasher and a cheap fridge we can sell later to tide us over. That'd save us around £5k in the short term until we build up more savings!

lotteryman

I think I read that you were not living in it whilst the work is done. That's a great plan. £30 -£40k is a lot of money. You also said you've done some basic DIY so I suggest

1. you do all the ripping out yourself - this is often costly for grunt work and you can save a lot of money. Just be careful if taking out cookers etc. and make sure they are properly disconnected/switched off, especially if they are gas and be careful around electricity! Hire a big skip!
2. if you buy your kitchen from one of the main DIY/kitchen places they charge a fortune for fitting so try to get an independent fitter. If you are considering a Wren kitchen do a web search first- some very unhappy customers!
3. Your biggest problem will be getting some tradesmen to a) quote you b) turn up when they stay and c) stay on the job and not flit between jobs saying they need to get materials so I would advise you ask friends for recommendations and then pin the trades down to specifics. If you have one trades person to do all the work (they will probably sub out stuff like electrics) put together a small works contract (see https://www.niceic.com/getattachment/Contractor/Essentals/Downloads/samplecontract.pdf.aspx) so you know exactly what they are doing and what you are being charged for. Try to include everything that needs doing and not a general statement. Also try to get a job price rather than an estimate making sure that you do not have to pay for additional work they find 'needs doing' and 'wasn't quoted for' once they have started.
4) do not make the mistake of paying up front for work. All reputable trades will have 30day accounts with suppliers and so do not need to pay in advance for supplies. If they ask for labour costs agree that you will pay them say, weekly in arrears, as the work progresses and based on you being satisfied with the work

szivarvanyftw

lotteryman wrote: »

If you are considering a Wren kitchen do a web search first- some very unhappy customers!

I've found both positive and negative web comments for all major kitchen companies tbh. No guarantees anywhere - but many seemed to complain about fitters and flatpack quality, both of which won't apply in our case so I'm hopeful!

lotteryman wrote: »

If you have one trades person to do all the work (they will probably sub out stuff like electrics) put together a small works contract so you know exactly what they are doing and what you are being charged for. Try to include everything that needs doing and not a general statement. Also try to get a job price rather than an estimate making sure that you do not have to pay for additional work they find 'needs doing' and 'wasn't quoted for' once they have started.
4) do not make the mistake of paying up front for work. All reputable trades will have 30day accounts with suppliers and so do not need to pay in advance for supplies. If they ask for labour costs agree that you will pay them say, weekly in arrears, as the work progresses and based on you being satisfied with the work

Super useful info - thank you!! :T

EmmyLou30

I too moved into a 4 bed house that needed redoing top to bottom (but without the rewiring element) and I budgeted £45-50k. Spent £25k already and still have the kitchen, bathroom, cloakroom loo and a whole heap of decorating to do! Most of it has gone on a new driveway, patio, windows, gutters etc, all the outside fabric of the house practical stuff as oposed to pretty stuff.

Personally how I use the house isn't how I thought it would be so for rooms like the kitchen I think it's really helpful to move in and use it first before doing the most costly room in the house. Our kitchen units were so caked in grease (I'm sure the previous owners ran a takeaway or something it was that bad) we had to scrape the worst off with a paint scraper before we could even attempt to clean with a cloth. So gross. But the single fixed pane window I would have considered blocking up to get a nice run of wall units I now know I want to keep as the westerly sun that comes through it really helps light up the kitchen as long as possible. Also the dining room being north facing is a very different light to what I thought so needed a different paint colour. If you live somewhere you'll get to know how the light is in different rooms etc So I would say don't rush too much if you can help it.