Ignorance a defence?

Moi?

Please help

Private carpark, the driver did not see signs, though he/she was not looking. Had he/she looked they would have seen signs that told them they had to register their car into the machine for four free hours. He/she was at the pub there for under two hours, they now have a £100 invoice (they know it's not a fine).

He/she wants to use your template letter arguing the signs were not 'big' enough, which is flaming true.

Is there any point in their trying? Thank you in advance.

bergkamp

Who is the PPC?

Moi?

Sorry, should have said. Parking Eye.

bergkamp

Your first port of call is the pub. Get them to cancel it.

Quentin

Of course you should appeal.

Everyone is politely asked to read up on this in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread

Go there now for advice on how to deal with this

Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving

You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving

muleskinner

Well Vine vs Waltham Forest is a Court of Appeal judgement (so binding on County Court) that states that you can't be bound by terms and conditions on signage that you haven't seen. That's my understanding of it anyway.

So if you have a good reason for not seeing the signage (e.g. because it's small, badly placed, unlit, doesn't meet code of practice guidelines etc) then I would say yes, you have an excuse.

enjoyyourshoes

'ignorance is no defence against the law'

nosferatu1001

Enjoy - not true, as pointed out above.
Not even true in criminal cssss. Unless it’s strict liability an element of mens rea must be shown.

Kirchenmaus

Are courts using Vine in PPC contract cases? The case was in relation to a Council wheel clamp, so although signage was involved, the case is not obviously relevant to a contract entered into on the basis of terms and conditions displayed prominently (or not) on a sign on private property.

--Kirchenmaus

Coupon-mad

Moi? wrote: »

Do I have ANY leg to stand on?

Of course. What happened when you complained in the pub that no-one brought this onerous term to your attention?

They can cancel these and are likely to do so every week - they will have User Manual with a phone number/email to cancel.

muleskinner

Kirchemmaus wrote: »

Are courts using Vine in PPC contract cases? The case was in relation to a Council wheel clamp, so although signage was involved, the case is not obviously relevant to a contract entered into on the basis of terms and conditions displayed prominently (or not) on a sign on private property.

PPC's are regularly quoting it completely out of context to justify their tenuous 'if the signs were there you should have seen them' argument. I see no reason not to throw this back at them. The general principle is the same - you can't be bound by terms and conditions on a notice that you haven't seen.

I'll have a clearer idea of what at least one DJ thinks when my case goes to court!