The Great Big Homelessness/Capitalism/Socialism Thread

westernpromise

Moby wrote: »

Yes I agree your answer was very simple and so is your understanding. You see your very first sentence was inaccurate. There are checks in place and they are rigorous ones. In the public sector we have national standards set for what we do, for example deadlines for work we do such as reports, interviews, assessments etc. There are performance targets and tables produced showing for example how one borough of London compares with another in the work of our service. I have a 6 monthly appraisal of my performance by my line manager and targets set for my next review. I have meetings I have to attend and monthly supervision. I am subject to observations on what I do. All this is to measure my performance and I've been working in the same area for nearly thirty years. Above all this we are then subject to scrutiny by Inspections. The inspectors are appointed by the Govmt of the day. They then produce reports of what they have found which are public record. I also have to do the job I get paid for of course!




Yes I agree it is serious because the work I do matters probably more and has a bigger impact on peoples lives than some desk jockey, software geek who are 10 a penny, live their lives in a virtual reality and still don't know what a girl looks like.

Again I agree with you Economic....not often we can say that. The private sector is driven by profit for the shareholders of that company rather than the public good. With regard to your assertion about incentives. Those incentives again are often profit at the expense of the public good. Look at the sub prime mortgage market in the USA and read about what happened. Although doubtless you'd probably prefer Western Promises denial that such events took place. Also it is generally accepted that markets are not as efficient as you assert. Ask commuters about their latest rail fares hike....seen the outcry about this? How many nailbars and hairdresses do we really need on the high street? in contrast we definitely don't have enough good plumbers or electricians though at a reasonable price. That's not efficient. Also the housing market is not being efficiently run for the public good is it!

First time I've ever been told how powerful I am. I'll take that as a compliment and see first reply with regards our accountability.


Such a good samaritan aren't you. Luckily there are many good people out there who do good work for little reward and do it because it's the right thing to do, not because it's incentivised. Also it's not about 'fault'. It's about living and working in a civilised place where things work and you don't have to look over your shoulder. People in public services do jobs that matter. If you are in danger you don't phone a software manager, you call the police. If a child is at risk you don't tell your financial adviser you call social services....likewise the NHS, Criminal Justice system, Fire fighters, local council services such as removal of waste etc.
That is why through collective action called democracy we expect everyone to contribute through tax and the backsliders should be forced through the Courts into paying their tab. Those who choose to be mealy mouthed about it and argue the toss about the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion need to shown the error of their ways or invited to move to say Nigeria...where they probably not need to worry about tax at all and they can wallow in their moral relativism without scrutiny.

You know, your pious, sentimental, self-regarding, self-applauding narcissism is just utterly repellent. I think it's the most disgusting thing of all about Labour voters - worse even than the greed, the idleness, the envy, or the sense of entitlement to other people's stuff.

westernpromise

Malthusian wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Endless pretend interviews and assessments, armies of inspectors checking on the work of other inspectors, reams of paper full of standards with no definition of failure, and nobody ever gets fired for being incompetent.

Quite. Here, for example, is a compete list of every UK regulator who was fired for their negligence in failing to foresee or pre-empt the 2008 crash:



Here's a similar list of every employee at Mid-Staffs NHS Trust who was fired after it was found that 1,200 people had died of neglect in their hospital:




And here's a list of every police officer who was fired after a mob of them shot an unarmed Brazilian electrician repeatedly in the face on the Tube and then lied about it:




That's why public sector workers just love the public sector. You can get away, almost literally, with murder, and instead of being imprisoned, you just get given more of other people's money.

Arklight

westernpromise wrote: »

You know, your pious, sentimental, self-regarding, self-applauding narcissism is just utterly repellent. I think it's the most disgusting thing of all about Labour voters - worse even than the greed, the idleness, the envy, or the sense of entitlement to other people's stuff.

I hope you get the help you so clearly need.

Arklight

Some interesting research here on the difference in outlook between political party members:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-death-penalty-poll-grassroots-members-queen-mary-university-london-a8139946.html

Professor Tim Bale, one of the authors, said: “Britain’s party members are the lifeblood and the footsoldiers of our democracy. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they look like or think like their parties’ voters – or, indeed, look or think like each other.
“The Tory grassroots in particular are something of a breed apart from their Labour, Lib Dem and SNP counterparts.”
The report found Tory members were authoritarian and resistant to ideas of political correctness, with 54 per cent in favour of the death penalty, compared to 23 per cent of SNP supporters, 9 per cent of Labour and 8 per cent of Lib Dems.

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

Arklight wrote: »

Some interesting research here on the difference in outlook between political party members:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-death-penalty-poll-grassroots-members-queen-mary-university-london-a8139946.html


[/FONT][/COLOR]

Quite unsurprising. You've seen the vitriolic hatred on this thread for simply offering an alternative point of view. Weird bunch.

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

That's why public sector workers just love the public sector. You can get away, almost literally, with murder, and instead of being imprisoned, you just get given more of other people's money.

Absolute made up nonsense. I think you'll find it's the people of power that get away with everything, that's irrespective of being in the public or private sector.

You need to be more open minded and stop being so partizan.

I don't hate Tory voters, even if the ones I have interacted with are selfish and lack any self awareness.

Nobody has answered my question so I will answer with my own opinion.
Yes it is immoral to avoid / evade tax when so many people only have the bare minimum to survive. Some are dying of cold in the streets. Others are having life altering operations cancelled. People aren't given the tools to better themselves and society will only improve once the poorest are given access to a decent education and support.

Why do I believe this? because I've seen 1st hand the impact that public services have improving lives.

Moby

Malthusian wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Endless pretend interviews and assessments, armies of inspectors checking on the work of other inspectors, reams of paper full of standards with no definition of failure, and nobody ever gets fired for being incompetent.

Totally predictable response, neither enlightening or helpful, just snidey. You know nothing about it in reality but don't let that get in the way of your prejudices.

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

I hope you get the help you so clearly need.

Can you imagine living with such people!:- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/04/tory-members-a-breed-apart-from-other-main-parties-study-finds

Moby

westernpromise wrote: »

This is grossly unfair, and so a future Labour government should arrange for a small quantity of acid to be thrown in the faces of good-looking people so that everyone is roughly as ugly as, say, Diane Abbott. Over time, plainer people will start to look relatively good compared all these acid-scarred or simply unprepossessing people. No problem - they can have some acid too. They can also pay more tax to fund the acid. .

Westernpromise is clearly exposing what's in his sub conscience and it's not pretty.

Arklight

Moby wrote: »

Westernpromise is clearly exposing what's in his sub conscience and it's not pretty.

It's not his sub-conscious though is it?


Generally the internet is all flame and banter but there is something genuinely wrong with that one.