Neighbours lean to destroying garden wall

Steph1078

I know nothing about walls, my OH keeps on about it like it’s a massive issue. Are you saying it’s not ?
He’s concerned with Mould and a young child - which is clearly not good.

Actually when it rains heavily it pours off that roof like there’s no tomorrow, I’m not sure why as I don’t spend hours outside in the rain looking 😂 and after the rain last night it’s soaked all the way down the wall this morning. So eventually it’s going to cause a bigger issue than it is now. I wonder if when the wall collapses because they won’t engage with us over it we then refuse to let them put the plastic sheeting back up.

DaftyDuck

Ah, deflect OH by pointing out your own gutter is blocked with weed (it is), and get him to clean that out.

I'm normally one to avoid all neighbour disputes. This one I would want to resolve. One answer, rather aggressive, is to increase your wall height by a single brick all along your side. Then, they can keep their roof, and their water.

Steph1078

Ha good spot - will show him later !
I think the more frustrating thing is that 3 months ago when I first approached them I may have got him to accept a gutter but now they’re not even talking he wants it taken down or the water completely on their side.
Previous poster is right that there’s a fence at the end of the wall and then a single post to put our gate in. So doesn’t help with ownership at all. It’s a mess.
But looks like the previous owners didn’t want to cause issues - it’s a small village attitude here where you’re supposed to be nice to neighbours & they already hate us i feel. Oh well.
Maybe I’ll ambush them when I see them so they can’t avoid me!
Maybe we can put some kind of plastic sheeting up to divert all the water back into their lean to as it doesn’t seem to be very good condition anyway then they’ll have to talk.
I did tell him to take all the loose bricks down and wait till it leaks into their “building” and see what they say then - because the bricks are literally sitting ready to fall off the posts - I can take them off.

Furts

Steph1078 wrote: »

- because the bricks are literally sitting ready to fall off the posts - I can take them off.

I am guessing you mean the piers. If so bear in mind my previous post. If the bricks can easily be removed then they are bonded to the wall - as I stabbed a guess at. This in turn means your wall is not stable. This appears to be your problem and not the neighbours, judging by the side of the wall that is facework. So you may have to face a reality - your neighbour does not care because it is not their problem, nor their wall.


Then consider the water staining. This is occurring because the wall was never built properly. Bodge a wall and this is the result. There is no coping course, no dpc detail, no drip detail and no detail to throw the water away from the wall. Again if the wall is your ownership then this is your problem and not your neighbour's problem.


No Forum posters know who owns the wall, but all round it does come across that the wall has been bodged, it has not been maintained, erosion is occurring and you believe this is all the fault of your neighbour. I am suggesting you step back and face a likelihood. Your neighbour could be a lot more knowledgable on walls than you think and be aware of all these issues! They could come back at you claiming your wall is dangerous, and ask what are you going to do to put it right.

Steph1078

Okay and I’ve not a problem if it’s my wall I will get it fixed but I don’t want their lean to on top of it ? So I don’t really understand what you’re saying....
if it’s our wall we will fix it - and rightly so - but right now they are refusing to engage over it.
What do you suggest I do - tell them to remove the lean to and have the wall fixed and tell them they can’t put it back up?

robowen

If you don't plan a lean-to yourself you'll have to put a gutter up. There's no where else it can go but on your side unless next door re-designs their lean-to and it's not looking likely. If OH is being stubborn then going to court is the only way to get next door engaged, and that'll cost more than some guttering if you lose.

I suspect you might not lose as next door probably didn't build it to code nor allow for adequate drainage.
Draining it to your side is not acceptable under any circumstances.

Ask for advice at your local planning dept, see if there are rules for lean-to's and see what council say about drainage from one property into another's yard.

Good luck.

SplanK

Is it even possible to attatch a gutter to catch the water effectivly? It looks to me from the image that the plastic roof sheets terminate about the middle of the wall at the top, so all its going to do is drain onto the wall.


For a gutter to be effective, the water will need to be caught as it falls from the roof?

Furts

Steph1078 wrote: »

Okay and I’ve not a problem if it’s my wall I will get it fixed but I don’t want their lean to on top of it ? So I don’t really understand what you’re saying....
if it’s our wall we will fix it - and rightly so - but right now they are refusing to engage over it.
What do you suggest I do - tell them to remove the lean to and have the wall fixed and tell them they can’t put it back up?

You may not want the roof bearing onto the wall - neither would I ideally - and guttering on your side of the wall would look strange. I am not a lawyer, but if the previous owner gave permission, or tolerated the situation and it has existed for decades, what can you do?

I suggest remedial works. The timber wall plate should be removed, a double creasing tile detail should be laid, and on top of this a course of Class A blue bricks. Whilst the bricklayer is there, rebuild the piers using drill fix ties into the existing wall.


Whether a lean too roof then gets re-fitted is down to you and your neighbour. But a gutter on their side would be possible simply by stopping the roof sheets short of the wall and the rain falling into their new gutter.


This gives a compromise with both parties happy - hopefully. But I suspect you will be paying for this work. Perhaps the neighbour would chip in for their roof works, or this simply does not get re-built.

Davesnave

Furts wrote: »

You may not want the roof bearing onto the wall - neither would I ideally - and guttering on your side of the wall would look strange. I am not a lawyer, but if the previous owner gave permission, or tolerated the situation and it has existed for decades, what can you do?

I'm not a lawyer either, but I know that a prescriptive easement can be created by continuous use/toleration over 20 years, so for that reason I'd want the discharge of water onto my property stopped ASAP.

Having thought about this a bit more, I'd have my solicitor draft a letter telling the neighbour they have a certain time in which to make alternative provision for the collection and discharge of the rain water from their roof. I'd spell out that what they're doing currently is not lawful and adversely affecting my property.

I'd leave scope in the letter for discussion of practical details/sharing of costs through a repair of the damaged wall, but I'd leave no doubt that the water should be collected and disposed of on the neighbour's side.

They created the problem so it's reasonable to ask that they solve it.

It would be up to the neighbour to prove this arrangement has pertained for 20+ years, assuming they'd find out the significance of that period and that time has actually elapsed.

All the above assumes that the neighbour refuses the best way of resolving this, which is reasoned discussion. However there's no that way channelling tens of litres of water over a wall and into a neighbour's side entrance is 'reasonable,' so I wouldn't hold my breath for that happening!

Steph1078

Thanks for this. I have since posted a letter after they ignored my knocking again... it was very polite and said please when they get a minute could they pop round and discuss the situation with the wall - and told them I’d tried to catch them a few times and must have missed them. I have personally spoken to two of the occupants of the property - mother and son on 2 different occasions - and they both said they’d speak to the husband/father. But they are clearly ignoring the fact that we just want a normal reasoned discussion over it.
I’ve had no knock or response to the letter and it’s now clearly dark so pointless them coming over now. (Before anybody asks they are in as their car is now parked in front of the house ha) I’m hoping they see sense and pop over in the morning / at any point tomorrow to discuss.
If this doesn’t work I will leave it a week and then write another perhaps more stern letter asking them to come round to discuss as they’re going to ignore my calling at their door.
If this doesn’t work I will have to instruct a solicitor.
They KNOW there’s an issue and instead of resolving they’re ignoring. They know what I’m going to say in that they need to remove the lean to / divert the flow of water and they don’t want to do so - they’re hoping we are going to go away i guess. The more they ignore the more frustrated I’m going to get. I’ve dug out solicitors documents which state that the boundary is theirs to maintain and there is a covenant for our property which says we must maintain the boundary’s marked (not that one!) - for this reason I believe that the houses were built at the same time and will have the same details given to them.
So ultimately if it’s their wall it’s going to save me money because I don’t have to fix it - I know they don’t HAVE to either I suppose but we can force the issue of the water then rather than debating repair bills (which if they come round tomorrow I may still be happy to split)... I don’t know.