Another 'Smart' Metre Question.

hilljd00

Hi,

I have a question or two about the 'smart' metre roll out. I hope you can answer my questions/concerns.

1. Are they mandatory?


2. What smart metre do I need to ensure I receive once mine is upgraded?
- I've read other members have had problems switching and then loosing the 'smart' functions.


3. Is it worth me trying to persuade my new supplier to upgrade my metre; or should I hold off for as long as possible?
- If so, why?


4. Who pays for these new metres?
- I assume, the customers? Either monetarily, data mining or both?


5. Do these metres have any security?

Thank you

Robisere

hilljd00 wrote: »

Hi,

I have a question or two about the 'smart' metre roll out. I hope you can answer my questions/concerns.
1. Are they mandatory?
2. What smart metre do I need to ensure I receive once mine is upgraded?
- I've read other members have had problems switching and then loosing the 'smart' functions.
3. Is it worth me trying to persuade my new supplier to upgrade my metre; or should I hold off for as long as possible?
- If so, why?
4. Who pays for these new metres?
- I assume, the customers? Either monetarily, data mining or both?
5. Do these metres have any security?

Thank you

To begin with: it's "meters" not "metres". Metres is a measuremaent of distance or length.

1. No.
2. AFAIK, no one has found the answer to that, because the government has entered into this scheme with its normal incompetence and lack of planning.
3. Who is your new supplier? Most of them seem quite happy to have you fit a Smartmeter. The problems start when you change suppliers again and find that your smartmeter does not work with their technology.
4. They will be paid for eventually by higher energy charges to every customer of every supplier, regardless of whether the customers have smartmeters or not. That's at least £11 Billion between us all. Or probably more: that's a government figure. :cool:
5. What do you mean by "security"? as in can someone steal them, or access them to steal energy?

The main facts to remember are that they are not compulsory and no one really knows which meter is the one that will work with all suppliers' technology. Because the whole scheme has been set up willy-nilly, without an organised plan and without finding one single meter that will work with everything. Situation normal: government knee-jerk solution leading to a government screw-up. And the customer pays.

House_Martin

Nice post , I do like the very last question the OP poses, "do they have any security ". To me as a meter reader I only know of the word "security "of smart meters to mean how secure they are to resist tampering.I don t recognise smart meters to have any other security concerns if that word is associated with the myth of hacking the meters in the UK
.Smart meter manufacturers have concerns about the meters being tampered and removed so they have made them difficult to defeat by various measures.
I will answer it anyway if only to advertise just how good these meters are at "security ".
Smart meters have a few sensors in the meter which can alert the supplier if the occupier is trying to tamper or remove the meter for his/her criminal intent to obtain free energy.
As a meter reader for many years so far I have not found any smart meters which have been tampered with in the 10 years they have been around.
So yes, they have plenty of security built into them.Its needed to stop the wholesale theft of energy which is happening in the UK as this link below will show.The section on British Gas visiting 20 properties in Dundas Rd Sheffield and finding 7 out of the 20 stealing energy just shows how much these meters are needed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25718447

System

Security - clearly, if BG are happy then we have nothing to worry about?

https://www.politico.eu/article/smart-grids-and-meters-raise-hacking-risks/

Quote: Cost benefits aside, the millions of smart meters installed in homes are a tempting target for hackers.

That’s why some countries are choosing “dumber” models out of security fears. The meters that really worry security experts are those that can be remotely switched off. The dangers range from leaving a single house in the dark to causing a widespread blackout by switching smart meters on and off repeatedly, said Kruese, whose company distributes power to about a third of Dutch households. “If you get control of the grid by getting control of the smart meters, you can cause a lot of damage.”

The Netherlands has opted for smart meters without the remote switch-off option, “because they saw this threat,” Kruese said. Unquote

Michaelw

The privacy issue is a concern to people as its recording all usage and then sending this back to the supplier.Also the debate over health risks continues.There does appear to be comments emerging about the gas meters reliability leading to the supply being cut off.Really the main benefits are for the supplier as they have total control and can monitor manage all usage remotely.

House_Martin

Michaelw wrote: »

The privacy issue is a concern to people as its recording all usage and then sending this back to the supplier.Also the debate over health risks continues.There does appear to be comments emerging about the gas meters reliability leading to the supply being cut off.Really the main benefits are for the supplier as they have total control and can monitor manage all usage remotely.

Well you in particular are making comments about smart gas meters "cutting off supplies " with a premature battery failure. I m not sure why you are cobbling up "project fear " about these rare battery failures .
Batteries in general have been failing early in all manner of equipment including Tesla hi tech battery powered cars which have burst into flames a few times.That is not stopping Elon Musk carrying on making these battery powered supercar rockets which are faster than a Ferrari.
This has been happening for at least 15 years with dumb gas meters, especially George Wilson gas prepayment meters which are used throughout the UK. They typically have a much shorter battery life anyway, as little as 2 years with excess use.
Thankfully when a smart meter battery fails now at least it does the correct thing as its designed to do and shuts off the supply.Occupier is likely to get on the phone to the supplier rapidly and it will be sorted quickly enough without any drama.
When the George Wilson and other gas meter makes of prepay meters fail there is an excellent chance of it failing with the valve open, meaning that the occupier then has a "free supply " of gas for years and years.The last thing SOME prepay users will do is get on the phone and complain that they are getting something for nothing and want to go back to feeding the gas meter every day.This is how "the real world " operates.

PixelPound

Whilst security can be about whether tampered to get free energy, maybe the security is an IOT related topic ("Internet of Things" as in getting new gadgets and connecting them to the home WiFi). Your Router may be secure and robust against attacks, and your computers may have firewalls etc that help but often cheap gadgets that require you to input password details so they can access your home network to perform their function may have less robust security measures.
So maybe they are asking whether the smart meter needs access to the home wifi network - in which case the answer is no. Your smart meter and display etc communicate over a local network, akin to bluetooth, and with the supplier over a Wide network akin to mobile phones.

Maybe its another IoT question in which can these devises be hacked to form a large BotNet to attack the country infrastructure? Such as:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/12/smart_grid_security_risks/
http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/29353/security/smart-meters-hacking.html

Grimbiz

I had BG smart meters and then switched away to another company. They stopped working as expected. Now I have switched back to BG for the best tariff and have to call out the Smart Meter installation team to get them working again - no wonder our bills are getting higher and higher!

Michaelw

My indoor display is not showing the gas meter occasionally last few days just the electricity bulb.I hope there are not problems beginning to show.

House_Martin

Michaelw wrote: »

My indoor display is not showing the gas meter occasionally last few days just the electricity bulb.I hope there are not problems beginning to show.

Are you commenting on the In house Display monitor which is failing.?
The meter display itself is unlikely to fail. If its the IHD failed, do what I, and nearly everyone else does and either bin it, or shove it in a drawer.
Smart metering is primarily there to enable the suppliers to run their businesses accurately and not rely on the vagaries of Joe Public submitting readings every three years , which is the norm.
Suppliers hate employing meter readers plodding around the streets all day costing them money.

Robin9

Michaelw wrote: »

My indoor display is not showing the gas meter occasionally last few days just the electricity bulb.I hope there are not problems beginning to show.

Time to put the gimmick into the rubbish bin.