Please help me choose the right heating - all electric flat

gungajim.je

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping someone can help me choose the right heating options for my flat. My flat has one cheap electric convection panel heater per room. I'm in the situation of being both cold AND paying big bills.

I appreciate that there are a lot of threads on this amazing site that more or less cover this already and of course there are lots of websites out there that cover this one way or another but I'm still non the wiser.

There are, of course, pros and cons to every system but that is making it harder for me to choose.

OK here's my situation. Sorry about splurging it all out but I thought I would try and describe the situation as best as I understand it and hopefully cover all the angles.

I have a 2 bed 2 bath flat with kitchen/living room. First floor, with other flats above and below me.
Building is a conversion of a victorian textile mill completed 2005.
Flat is electric only; no gas at all (building regs prevent this I believe) meters are single tariff.
As far as I can tell I'm on the best value tariff I can get (co-op energy).
It is possible to have an E7 meter fitted (building managers and energy company both OK with this) but I'm aware I'd need some electrical work doing to fit a separate E7 supply for charging up overnight (if that's the right way to go).
My hot water is from a 150 litre Steibel Eltron SHZ 150 S (rated C). I have fitted a timer as it was always on and the insulation is pretty good on it but it's still a hell of a lot of water to heat for someone who just has a shower on a morning. This can be fitted with a E7 element but doesn't have one at the moment.
Present heating is from cheap 750W convention panel heaters; one per room. Needless to say they don't do the job.
I'm confused as to the energy rating of the flat - the EPC presented to me when I was buying said B, but my surveyor estimated D. I think the insulation is pretty good and the windows are also efficient coated double glazed. I think the insulation must be OK as the north facing flat maintains an unheated ambient temperature of between 13-15C / 55-59F in deepest winter and can exceed 28C / 82F in summer if I don't manage the shading and ventilation. I have thermometers everywhere - I am obsessed!

OK here's are the big problems;
Ceiling height - the ceilings are brick 'barrelled' which look great but the apex of each 'barrel' is 3.94 meters (about 13 ft) from the floor. This means that whilst the flat isn't particularly big (approx 78m2/ 840 sq ft)) the ceiling height means there's a lot of space to heat.
Window size and orientation - although apparently efficient, there are four huge windows. These are 4.2m2 / 45 sq ft each and are all north facing, so despite their size, no solar benefit at all.
Constantly on fan ventilation - common in modern blocks of flats they suck moisture out of the bathrooms and kitchen to stop mould but they must take a lot of heat with them.

I'm thinking I'd rather fork out initially and hopefully benefit from low running costs. However I have to accept that all electric heating is going to cost more than GCH, ditto high ceilings.

I live alone and work during the day so looking at heating for a hour or so in the morning then evenings.

I imagine from reading this (if you are still reading this!) you're thinking "fit modern storage heaters on E7, job done" and I were in a 'normal' flat with 'normal' height ceilings I'd agree. But I'm still wondering if underfloor heating might do the job too. This might not be too big a job to fit - (engineered wood laminate in kitchen/living room, carpets in bedrooms, not bothered about bathrooms) as long as fitting insulation underneath doesn't raise the floor too much. This is because the theory is that rather than conventional wall mounted convection heater / radiators, you don't have to heat all the way up to the ceiling first before you feel any benefit.

So that's everything I think.

Thanks for persisting with a super long post from a first-timer.

I'd love to know what everyone thinks.

Thanks in advance.

Jim.

PS
There is a small box room / large cupboard in the flat. I'm basically spending the winter in here as I can keep it at 18 degrees from body heat alone! But it's not really ideal; I keep thinking that there has to be an intelligent solution to the heating problem here.

makeni555

Hi gungajim.je

Close on the E7, but I would go for Economy 10 - SSE will fit this meter at any property free of charge. Depending on where you'd live you'd get 2-3 hours cheap rate (off peak) electric in the evening (ideal if your out at work) and the cheap rate times are split over 3 periods, some time in the early hours, aftenoon and evening, scotland is different.

You can have the heaters on a separate ring main but all electric can go through the mete so you can have your washer/dryer and other appliances on in the cheap rate period.

I would go for storage heating which does work provided you install sufficient capacity, its a case of working out how many cubic feet you have (incl high ceilings) and then making sure the heaters are of the right size. Storage heating gets a bad rep because the sufficient capacity is rarely installed.

Good luck

jk0

There's always Dimplex Quantum I guess, though I dread to think what the repair costs will be of all that electronics.

Personally I would go for Creda conventional storage heaters in hall & living room, sized to provide background heating. Then use the existing panel heaters to top up when you're at home.

BTW, you don't need an 'Economy 7 element' for hot water. As long as you are on Economy 7, a timeswitch will do the trick.

FTA: There are usually 2nd hand storage heaters on Ebay for a few pounds. You could cheaply buy a couple, and a couple of timeswitches to see how you like them before you ask for E7 tariff.

gungajim.je

Hi jk0,

Some good advice - thank you

I fitted a time switch to the tank a while ago so I could sync it to off peak times - that's good to know.

Good idea getting some cheap storage heaters on eBay to try them out.
I like quantum heaters but they are pricey.

I had a quote from Fischer Future Heat a month ago - I think they were trying to bankrupt me.

Jim.

gungajim.je

Hi makeni555,

Some good advice, thanks.
I'm going to investigate E10 a bit more - this might suit me a bit better than E7 as I sometimes work from home and my work hours occasionally vary.
Good point regards capacity; I used a couple of online calculators to figure out the heating requirements in KW for the cubic area. It is two to three times higher than the current heaters are capable of.

Jim

m0bov

Hi have Dimplex QRAD, vert effiecent and worth the investment, then go for a standard elec tariff. E10 is a stitch up as you can't shop around so much and its costs a fortune.

matelodave

m0bov wrote: »

Hi have Dimplex QRAD, vert effiecent and worth the investment, then go for a standard elec tariff. E10 is a stitch up as you can't shop around so much and its costs a fortune.

QRAD are NOT storage heaters, they are CONVECTOR heaters and will use peak rate leccy rather than off-peak.

They do not store heat so cannot take advatage of an off-peak tariff. A £20 heater from ARGOS will keep you just as warm and will cost exactly the same for the same amount heat.

gungajim.je

Hi m0bov,

Thanks for your suggestion.
The reviews online are all positive for the q-rad but I can't find any reviews from anyone who's used them for a significant period of time.

Can I ask you;
Did you install these to replace different heaters?
If so, did you reduce your electricity bills?
Did you notice an improvement in comfort?

Thanks,

Jim.

gungajim.je

Hi matelodave,

I agree that standard convection wall heaters are not the way ahead for me. This is what I have at the moment and I'm paying good money to heat the high ceilings. So much so that I've even investigated fitting a mezzanine level which is a somewhat extreme solution to the problem.

However, from the (admittedly cursory) research I've done into the q-rad, Dimplex claim that their heaters are an improvement over standard convection heaters because they radiate as well as convect the heat plus the controls are more intelligent which means they're never on longer than they need to be.

I have to admit to skepticism about these claims but if someone takes the time to recommend them from real world experience, the least I can do is investigate.

IF there really is such a thing as a energy efficient wall heater that saves money on a standard tariff, then it's the solution that requires the least effort on my part; I simply replace my old heaters with these.

I do hope m0bov can find the time to share the benefit of their experience.

matelodave

A 1kw heater produces 1kwh of heat in one hour and will use 1kwh of electricity.

All electric heaters are 100% efficient so in what way will one filled with magic dust, electronic controls, gold filings or even special casing produce more heat for less money.

If your room required 2kwh to keep it warm then that's what the heater has to produce. Certainly different types of heater may warm you quicker, like a fan heater or infra red or a bit slower like a convector or oil filled radiator but in the end it's still the same amound of energy that's got to be produced.

The advantage of storage heaters is that they can collect all that energy as heat when the cost per kwh is at it's lowest and then release during the day when you need it.

A convector, radiant, fan heater, or oil fiiled rad will only produce heat when turned on and that's usually during the peak rate times.

Richie-from-the-Boro

- E7 is 30% cheaper than day rate
- E10 is the luxury (10 rather than 7 hours) tariff
- E10 is a zero competition expensive tariff
- convection warms ceilings and seagulls
- radiation heats humans
- Fischer, qRAD and even Quantum use 13a daytime expensive tariffs
- output (flap) knobs are a malardy and should be welded closed

Night store on E7 is what I would do and critically important would be 20% more 'stored' heat capacity than any table would suggest, there is always an odd week in both winter and spring where you wish you has more stored cheaper heat.