PCN in the post, nothing on the car, I had a valid permit, please help!

AlexJTG

Hi all,

I've had a look at the newbie guide but I'm a bit lost on what to do.

I parked in the car park for my own block of flats, which is under the "protection" of IG Security/Globe Protection Ltd. They have clear signs saying our permits must be in our windshields, and the sticker on mine came loose and the permit fell onto the seat.

They have sent me 2 PCNs in the post so far, for £100 each (and the classic £60 if you pay now scam). I didn't have any notice on the car at all. I appealed the first one, showing a picture where the permit could be clearly seen face up on the seat, it had just fallen out of place. They rejected the appeal and said basically if it's not on the screen it's not valid.

Is this normal, to get a letter straight to your house without any notice on the vehicle? And what are my options if I've proved to them my permit was clearly in the car? The pictures they've taken are conveniently at an angle where you can't see the seat where a huge bright orange permit was looking right at them.

I didn't use my car for about 4 days so I'm worried I'll be getting another 2 PCNs amounting to £400, and I'm an unemployed student with £7.80 available in the bank.

Thanks in advance

AlexJTG

To be clear: the letter is titled "Parking charge notice to registered keeper" so they must have looked up my reg somewhere

AlexJTG

Here's the rejection letter from my appeal:

"Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you, we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reason: Whilst we note that you have a valid permit, the signage on site approved by the International Parking Community clearly states that you must display your permit in the front windscreen. As the photographic evidence clearly shows no permit on display, you have breached the terms and conditions and the Parking Charge Notice has been issued correctly.

For your further information, in the case of ParkingEye Limited –v- Beavis the court of appeal unambiguously clarified the common law's position on both the nature and enforceability of parking charges.

It is now clear that a parking charge having the predominant purpose or intention to deter is not sufficient in itself to invalidate the charge so long as it is not extravagant and unconscionable; thus this parking charge is fully enforceable under the rules about contractual penalties.

The Court made reference to indirect losses that parking contraventions can cause to operators, the need for large charges to deter breaches, the benefit to the community that such deterrence can create and the intention of Parliament for such charges to be enforceable.

Following the ruling in Beavis, it is without doubt that your parking charge is wholly valid and fully enforceable.

You now have various options:  You can pay the total amount due as shown above within the next 14 days from the date of this letter. ▪ Call us on 01932 918098 ▪ Pay securely online at (can't post links)▪ Send a payment to the address noted above (please quote the PCN Number on all payments)  If you believe that this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal to the IAS, you will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. This information can be found at the top of this letter. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. For further information, please visit (can't post links)

Your attention is drawn to the fact that if you appeal this charge you lose the option to pay the reduced rate and therefore the full amount of £100.00 will be payable. If you appeal and then subsequently pay the charge prior to the appeal being determined, the appeal will be cancelled and you will not be given a further opportunity to contest this charge If you appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS), we will suspend recovery activity on the Parking Charge Notice until the appeal has been determined.

If you do not make payment or appeal, the outstanding PCN will be passed to our appointed debt collection agency for further action and all costs associated with this process will be added to the amount outstanding"

Redx

yes it is normal, they can either affix a windscreen notice to the vehicle and then get keeper details after 28 days from the dvla , so between day 29 and day 56

or they can take pictures and access the dvla database to get keeper details and send a pcn NTK in the post, like they have done with you

the IPC black text appeal is the one to use for each and every pcn

ability to pay (or not) is irrelevant if this becomes a court case

they have 6 years to try a court case

you need to check what your lease or ast says about parking (or doesnt say about it) - the lease is the crucial element here and if you want answers then you need to say what that lease says and show pictures of the signage, hosted on tinypic

also read the threads on here by members daniel san and hairray, about OWN SPACE parking like yours

you should also be complaining to the MA and getting them cancelled , this is your BEST OPTION

AlexJTG

Thanks Redx I'll read those threads. Sorry if this is stupid but when you say complain to the MA, what does that stand for?

waamo

MA is Managing Agent

Redx

MA = Managing Agent

the Agent that Manages the complex and employed this private parking company (PPC)

its usually whoever gives out or authorises the permits

and remember, the PPC is not saying there was no permit, they are saying it was not displayed correctly, so a different issue

think of it as like when cars had a VED tax disc, you could be punished for not having one or purchasing one, plus you could be punished for not displaying it in the windscreen (even if you had paid for one and received it sop had a valid tax disc)

the lease you signed and the signage on the site are crucial here, so check all your paperwork

AlexJTG

Just checked my tenancy agreement (I rent the flat), not one mention of parking in it. They just said "I'll have to check if the owner has a parking space" when I signed the agreement, then they gave me a permit the next day.

AlexJTG

I unfortunately can't post a link to the sign or an embedded image as I am a new user and it won't let me.

Redx

post a dead URL , changing http to hxxp

yes its that easy

AlexJTG

hxxp://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dr9rlt&s=9

Well it probably shouldn't be that easy but here it is.