Landlord withholding a retrospective payment but refunded deposit

gjm1168

Hi all,

I've been in private rented accommodation for over four years at this address and never missed a beat in paying rent or raising any issues etc - in fact my estate agent classes me a model tenant.

The landlord, who was living abroad for my tenancy of his/her house, decided to "come home" and thus served two months notice on me, which, since it was past my rental payment period by a few days, meant I ended up with nearly three months to find somewhere else to live. Not brilliant but that's the run of the gauntlet with renting somebodies own house I guess, so hey ho, lets find a new property and ask the landlord if they object to me leaving as soon as i fond somewhere. They didn't so house hunting we shall go.

Fast forward in time. I found somewhere within a few weeks and agreed with the landlord an exit date (17/11/17) which was well ahead of the date I had to move out by (2/1/18) and that I should be given a retrospective refund due to my exit being midway(ish) through my monthly payment schedule. All went smoothly and in early December I get my deposit refunded in full.

All sounds good so far right? Wrong! No retrospective payment refunded due to the landlord apparently wanting me to pay for two problems!!!

So, my questions is really this:
1) can they do this, given any issues/complaints should come from the deposit?
2) what's the best was to get my retrospective refund back in full?

From my perspective I believe they can't do this because:
- they've officially admitted that there is no problem with the property because they've refunded my deposit in full.
- they can't withhold money from a source other than the deposit since this is what the deposit is specifically for.
- by withholding money from a source other than the deposit I can't dispute it through arbitration and therefore they have deprived me of this right.

Thanks for any advice here.

Regards,

G

HampshireH

What is a retrospective refund?

Do you mean you paid a full months rent in advance, left half way through and would like the other half back?

Did the LL terminate your tenancy half way through or did they just allow you to leave, ending the tenancy at the end of the month as it should have done?

If end of the month then no refund due.

If they gave you in writing a termination date of mid month against the terms of the contract then they should give your overpayment back. But if thats the case why did you pay it in the first place knowing you didnt need to?

Comms69

HampshireH wrote: »

What is a retrospective refund?

Do you mean you paid a full months rent in advance, left half way through and would like the other half back?

Did the LL terminate your tenancy half way through or did they just allow you to leave, ending the tenancy at the end of the month as it should have done?

If end of the month then no refund due.

If they gave you in writing a termination date of mid month against the terms of the contract then they should give your overpayment back. But if thats the case why did you pay it in the first place knowing you didnt need to?

A LL cant terminate a tenancy, but I think what you're saying is broadly accurate

G_M

gjm1168 wrote: »

Hi all,

...

The landlord, who was living abroad for my tenancy of his/her house, decided to "come home" and thus served two months notice on me, which, since it was past my rental payment period by a few days, meant I ended up with nearly three months to find somewhere else to live.
Lucky! He only needed to give you two calender months.......!

.... find a new property and ask the landlord if they object to me leaving as soon as i fond somewhere. They didn't Good. What agreement was reached about leaving wtout giving full notice, and rent payments?
Was the agreement in writing?

... I .... agreed with the landlord an exit date (17/11/17) which was well ahead of the date I had to move out by (2/1/18) and that I should be given a retrospective refund due to my exit being midway(ish) through my monthly payment schedule.
Was the agreement in writing?
What date did you pay your last rent and what period did it cover?
All went smoothly and in early December I get my deposit refunded in full.Good

All sounds good so far right? Wrong! Right. It does all sound good so far.

No retrospective payment refunded due to the landlord apparently wanting me to pay for two problems!!!
Please explain these two problems.

So, my questions is really this:
1) can they do this, given any issues/complaints should come from the deposit? Depends what agreement was reached and whether it was in writing (ie verifiable)
2) what's the best was to get my retrospective refund back in full?
Talk to the landlord.

From my perspective I believe they can't do this because:
- they've officially admitted that there is no problem with the property because they've refunded my deposit in full.
- they can't withhold money from a source other than the deposit since this is what the deposit is specifically for.
- by withholding money from a source other than the deposit I can't dispute it through arbitration and therefore they have deprived me of this right.

G

I assume you are saying the LL is now claiming there was damage, or missing items from the inventory, or suchlike?

1) is he right?

2) how much £ is he claiming, and what for?

3) if there IS damage, of course he can claim compensation. Either via the deposit (too late), or via the courts, or via money he holds

4) you can sue - claim the rent back via the courts.
a) you'd need evidence that it was agreed he'd repay you and permit an Early Surrender without penalty
b) he could counter-sue for the damage

ThePants999

OP, you're both right and wrong.

On the one hand, they're not entitled to withhold overpaid rent. If you genuinely have an early surrender agreed, and the landlord is holding rent relating to a period beyond the end of the tenancy, they owe you that money.

However, you're wrong in thinking that because your deposit has been returned, that's the end of it with respect to any damage to the property etc. Returning the deposit is not an admission that the property has been returned in acceptable condition, and while withholding some of the deposit is by far the easiest way of claiming any damages, it's not the only way. So you need to discuss these "problems" with the landlord and agree what to do about them - if they're genuine, agreeing to repay out of what the landlord owes you is going to be a lot quicker and cheaper than you both taking each other to court.

If you don't agree that you owe anything, however, you'll need to file with the small claims court for return of the overpaid rent. (After the usual letter before action, etc.)

gjm1168

HampshireH wrote: »

What is a retrospective refund?

Do you mean you paid a full months rent in advance, left half way through and would like the other half back?

Pretty much yes

HampshireH wrote: »

Did the LL terminate your tenancy half way through or did they just allow you to leave, ending the tenancy at the end of the month as it should have done?

They issued the termination days after my monthly rental payment was paid. They gave a termination date that coincided with my monthly payment date almost three months later. Payment date is the 1st of every month. They terminated on 3rd or 5th (I can't remember exactly) of October saying vacate by 1st Jan 2018.

HampshireH wrote: »

If end of the month then no refund due.

What, even if this has been agreed that it should be?

HampshireH wrote: »

If they gave you in writing a termination date of mid month against the terms of the contract then they should give your overpayment back. But if thats the case why did you pay it in the first place knowing you didnt need to?

There's a SO in place and it's paid a month in advance.

gjm1168

G_M wrote: »

I assume you are saying the LL is now claiming there was damage, or missing items from the inventory, or suchlike?

1) is he right?>

LL is claiming that "...the chimney breast needs redecorating." And he was expecting the back garden to be laid to turf.

G_M wrote: »

2) how much £ is he claiming, and what for?

As above. The garden was a jungle when I moved in, no grass at all. The estate agents arranged for it to be cleared, basically returned it to bare earth which I have maintained it at ever since. During the tenancy I asked if I could lay a lawn so I could actually use the garden. LL said yes. I asked if he'd be willing to contribute to that financially, he said no. So I never did it, I just maintained it weed free and never had enjoyable use of it during the entire tenancy. He's now expecting it to be done. He's withholding £300 across the two issues.

gjm1168

ThePants999 wrote: »

OP, you're both right and wrong.

On the one hand, they're not entitled to withhold overpaid rent. If you genuinely have an early surrender agreed, and the landlord is holding rent relating to a period beyond the end of the tenancy, they owe you that money.

Okay, thank you.

ThePants999 wrote: »

However, you're wrong in thinking that because your deposit has been returned, that's the end of it with respect to any damage to the property etc. Returning the deposit is not an admission that the property has been returned in acceptable condition, and while withholding some of the deposit is by far the easiest way of claiming any damages, it's not the only way. So you need to discuss these "problems" with the landlord and agree what to do about them - if they're genuine, agreeing to repay out of what the landlord owes you is going to be a lot quicker and cheaper than you both taking each other to court.

I completely agree with the cheaper than going to court bit, but isn't the deposit supposed to be a measure against LL's doing this sort of thing? After I've left and deposits refunded, what's to stop him or anyone else coming in, causing damage and then blaming me? And where in all that is my opportunity to put right any wrongs without having to pay the exorbitant fees he claims?

ThePants999 wrote: »

If you don't agree that you owe anything, however, you'll need to file with the small claims court for return of the overpaid rent. (After the usual letter before action, etc.)

Messy and I've messaged him to see if he will reconsider, or at least offer me the opportunity to put right whatever we can agree on.

Samsung_Note2

Do you have a secure property now...if not is it really worth falling out with LL over £300.

Marvel1

gjm1168 wrote: »

Okay, thank you.


I completely agree with the cheaper than going to court bit, but isn't the deposit supposed to be a measure against LL's doing this sort of thing? After I've left and deposits refunded, what's to stop him or anyone else coming in, causing damage and then blaming me? And where in all that is my opportunity to put right any wrongs without having to pay the exorbitant fees he claims?


Messy and I've messaged him to see if he will reconsider, or at least offer me the opportunity to put right whatever we can agree on.

I think the landlord knew what they were doing, return deposit , that way the appeal process does not have to be done and is hoping you would not waste time with small claims court.

gjm1168

Samsung_Note2 wrote: »

Do you have a secure property now...if not is it really worth falling out with LL over £300.

I do have a secure property, different LL and different estate agent. £300 is a lot of money this side of Christmas. And more to the point, it was agreed I should have it - I don't like it when people welch on an agreement no matter the amount. I'd prefer not to fall out with anyone but have little loose that I've not already lost if I do!