Outfox the Market reviews: add your feedback

jono1975

I've had the mail too, looks like they're not budging on this winter/summer thing. Not sure how a meter reading will help them to work out my winter usage. They have my figures from my old suppiers so they should know.

They just decided we'll all use 25% more a year and clicked update, then done a 70/30 winter summer weighting. I think anyone could run an energy buisness if this is how complex their algorithms are.

Can't we just all have smart meters and have the option to pay each month for what we actually use at the current wholesale rate. no standing charges or memebership fees lining private company pockets. Just the current cost per KWh, but with the option to even it all out over a year on an estimate if money is tight. Give people options. Not put it up in the season where money is tight!

Is all this something to do with the government price cap, why am I so cyncal, it's Friday, thanks OFTM!

PowerDev

Hi all, repeat of the earlier post plus the attack strategy..



How you go back at them is as follows.


Add up how much you have already paid (by DDR) starting from your April 2018 bill through to your latest bill. Then work out how many more DDR payments you will make up to and including the March 2019 bill. Multiply that number of payments by your new Winter DDR rate (as on the email), to give the Remaining payments due.


Add the Actual and Remaining payments together; that gives you the Total Predicted payments for the 12 months Apr2018 through March 2019)



Subtract the Annual Estimated Cost on the email from the Total Predicted payments you have calculated. The result will be the excess payment they are trying to charge you for this Financial year. You quote back to them the Total Predicted Payments and the excess and object to the severe overcharging. Demanding of course that they hold your DDR to the appropriate level namely...


Annual Estimated Cost minus Actual Payments made is the correct Remaining Payments Due. Divide that by the number of remaining payments (up to and including the March 2019 bill). The result is of course the DDR you should pay this Winter and will probably be very close to your current DDR. Therefore just tell them not to change it.... Or Else!!!! (See below)

============================================
What Outfox are up to


When you look at the email you will see that the Estimated Annual Cost is simply your current DDR multiplied by 12. It is not an estimate of your likely consumption over the year.
Applying the new rates, Summer times 6 then Winter times 6, simply adds up to that same Annual figure.

Outfox then propose to apply the High Winter DDR rate over the coming Winter period but have taken no account of the Credit you have accrued over the Summer (Apr to Sep 2018 inclusive) to pay for part of that Winter Period (Sep 2018 to Mar 2019 inclusive) .

Therefore
They are trying to charge you an excess amount for the current 12 month period (April 2018 to March 2019) which comes out roughly equal to the Credit you see on your latest Bill. They will actually be charging you twice for for the amount of Energy which could be bought by that excess payment.

So, I have simply gone back to Outfox (actually the Trading name of Foxglove Energy) and told them the attempt at excess charging is invalid. And to leave my DDR at the current level until March 2019. They can then drop the DDR to the Summer rate but only if the Regulator (OFGEM) determines that changing the DDR structure within the Contract period is valid.

Now....
A DDR is a financial Instrument and we have a Merchant trying to charge twice for the same Goods.

I would be interested in Martin's opinion as to whether this behaviour can be referred to the Financial Conduct Authority as well as to Energywatch!!

Colin3

OutFoxTheMarket - I changed in September 2018. The switch went smoothly, but three things you need to be aware of:
1. They operated as a sudo wholesale club with standing changes replaced by a monthly membership fee - although todate this has been generally lower than most other energy providers.
2. Their unit price is variable - two changes in two months, but still price sensitive.

3. Where I have issues is they recently announced a change to my Direct Debit from a fixed amount to staggered higher amount Oct-March and lower Apr-Sep. I have raised a complaint as in doing so they also increased my estimated usage by 20%, effectively you are banking a credit with them - not very friendly.

Barneybear1

They want to double my direct debit over winter, (this should not be allowed). I do not use the amount of energy over the year for the amount I pay now. They want me to take a photograph so they will consider doing this. How ridiculous, seems like a scam to boost out fox the markets coffers through interest to me

geoffplus

Are there not rules about how much a Company can take from a direct debit without sufficient justification? If not, anyone you have a regular direct debit with can just decide to borrow some money off you in this way. Yes you get it back eventually, but meanwhile they have your money.

OFTM do not seem to have sufficient justification, just a 25% across the board hike in payments.

For what it is worth I have contacted OFGEM, Citizens Advice and even BBC Watchdog. Might produce something. All is clearly not right with OFTM.

Warning!! someone just posted on Trustpilot that they "asked the agent if they were in trouble and he did not say no! He said, "He would not put it like that". It does seem they need cash quickly

Cornucopia

stephenbrowning wrote: »

They will actually be charging you twice for for the amount of Energy which could be bought by that excess payment.

I was with you up to there. I don't see any evidence to support the notion that they are double-charging.

Once again, a Monthly Energy DD is simply a payment on account. The clocking up of charges against that payment on account, based on meter readings, is completely transparent (or should be).

ben501

squibby wrote: »

Looks like they've finally listened!

Yeah right! More like...

IMPORTANT DIRECT DEBIT NOTIFICATION UPDATE
Following yesterday’s email detailing our revised Direct Debit policy, we are *****ing ourselves as we didn't anticipate such a backlash and can't afford to lose so many customers and are introducing additional measures to ensure the changes are fair and accurate for everyone, and to make sure every customer pays for their actual annual energy consumption.

ploddo

deanae wrote: »

I just done the maths on the current and future direct debit amounts and compared them to their last bills estimates. I know we are a heavy user as an electric only household.

From the bill: Estimated annual cost: £1343.40
Current direct debit at £170.59 a month: £2047.08 = 150% of estimate
Future direct debit at £298.53 and £127.94: £2558.85 = 190% of estimate

Are they going the same way as Iresa?

Your direct debit amounts are interesting:
My estimated annual cost £1640.91
current direct debit £124.25
future direct debit £217.42 and £93.18

quite a bit less than yours although my EAC is more....


Anyhow, I am not prepared to pay that much - I am on a fixed income and that is 1/3 of it! They are unlikely to listen to reason as they haven't done that regarding my membership fee which has been increased twice since June even though usage is less than estimated when I joined. I'm off!

jono1975

I don't really think they have listened, they are still having winter/summer DD paymnet and the owness is on the customer to request credit back.

It also remains to be seen what effect sending a picture of our meters will have, it's really not possible to work out a years usage from one reading and they only have one other of mine, although I'm sure they have most old supplier details available.

shazzablue

I think anyone with a good amount of credit will now be exempt from the winter robbery...what they are not grasping is peoples income is fixed all year round!....my employer dosent give me more money in winter...and less in summer.i feel now for peace of mind I wont mind paying a little extra to stay with a more established company with more than a email and web chat for communication.