Supermarket fuel v the rest

AdrianC

IanMSpencer wrote: »

In simple terms you have:

A & B petrol where B is different and B can produce a distinct difference in performance.

You have C diesel.

Yes.

There are also:
A+ and B+ petrol

There are A and B petrol from different brands. If you're using "+" to denote some simple brand split, then fine.

and C+ diesel.

Ah, now do you mean "C+" within a brand, or "C+" across brands? You having used "A/A+" and "B/B+" to denote the difference between brands simply muddies that. There is "C/C+" in terms of brand differences, as well as two different products within each brand. Whether they carry an actual tangible difference, like A/B, is a different question. Shall we call them C/C* within a brand, so C*/C+* across brands?

Note that in no place in this simplification...

<raises eyebrows>

...do I really need to add in the word "supermarket".

Except that's exactly the differentiation generally being made between "A/B/C/C*" and "A+/B+/C+/C+*" products... If we go from a simple "supermarket"/"oil brand" split to a difference between each and every brand (which, after all, is exactly what the additive packages are), then we get into a whole world of confuzzletification.

motorguy

IanMSpencer wrote: »

And I've tried to make it clear that if you ignore the confusion then people can't make sense of the debate. You think I've added to the confusion - I suggest by trying to ignore the confusion you add to the confusion. Rinse and repeat.

In simple terms you have:

A & B petrol where B is different and B can produce a distinct difference in performance.

You have C diesel.

There are also:
A+ and B+ petrol

and C+ diesel.

The benefits of the + are unclear, but the + element is real and charged for, does not create a significant difference in performance, might produce some effects in engine condition.

The brands are happy that some people believe that C+ is in some way D+ diesel and the fact that A and B exist and people are not clear what the difference between A+ and B leads to the opportunity for marketeers to allow the seed of fantasy D+ to remain in people's minds.

We can add to the pot that in a modern car A and B can be used interchangeably, but not all users will get the same benefit.

Note that in no place in this simplification do I really need to add in the word "supermarket".

And all that is simpler than talking about supermarket diesel and branded diesel is it?

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

OK, + means additive. I did not denote brands.

A is premium, B is super.

A+ is premium with additives, B+ is super with additives.

C is diesel.
C+ is diesel with additives.

There may be variations in what + actually is, but that varies by brand. We can debate whether Omo's blue bits are better than Persil's blue bits, but...

motorguy

AdrianC wrote: »

then we get into a whole world of confuzzletification.

Indeed.....

motorguy

IanMSpencer wrote: »

OK, + means additive. I did not denote brands.

A is premium, B is super.

A+ is premium with additives, B+ is super with additives.

C is diesel.
C+ is diesel with additives.

There may be variations in what + actually is, but that varies by brand. We can debate whether Omo's blue bits are better than Persil's blue bits, but...

You're not really helping your case here are you....

AdrianC

IanMSpencer wrote: »

OK, + means additive. I did not denote brands.

But that's precisely what the difference between A/A+ and B/B+ is. You're using the "+" to mean something different for diesel, though.

A is premium, B is super.

A+ is premium with additives, B+ is super with additives.

And by "additives", you mean brand-specific additives. You don't get "value" (A) and "posh" (A+) 95 on one forecourt. If you're at Tesco, but want to change from A to A+, you go down the road to Shell.

C is diesel.
C+ is diesel with additives.

So C is "Tesco diesel", and "C+" is "Shell diesel"?
But where does that leave us with each brand's "posh" diesel products...? Each filling station has two diesel pumps. Like I suggested - "C*", "C*+"?

If you're at Tesco, and want to change to "posh" diesel, you pick up the other black pump.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

In SpennyWorld I think that has exactly teased out the issue. What I am trying to get to is that there are 3 different basic fuels on sale and then there are additive packages. In my world, any additive package will only ever be marginal gains (if anything) so there is no point trying to distinguish between them other than to acknowledge such products exist, whether on the same forecourt or elsewhere. The whole diesel debate only makes sense if people believe that an additive makes as much difference as increasing the octane rating in petrol, (based on price points), which nobody actually dares claim. Of course, anyone who wants to can confuse the issue and make the issue seem more confused.

With regards to diesel, as it appears to be acknowledged by the manufacturers that the premium products only can affect the long term condition of the engine, then any claim that the effects of premium diesel can be detected over even a few thousand miles has to be suspect, there simply will not have been any measurable change in engine condition in that time.

NBLondon

Back when I was a lad and the stars allegedly made it simpler... there were plenty of people who would put 5-star in in the belief that they would get better performance - even when the car was tuned for 3-star or 4-star. A few years back - right here - I'm sure I've seen people insisting that their car needs the higher octane options - which would only be true if it was a specialist import or modified in some way. So it's quite believable that many people perceive they are getting something out of a branded fuel even when the benefits of the detergent packages are marginal in most cases or less significant to MPG than driving style.
I used to run my Focus (1.6 EcoBoost) on Shell standard petrol because a) there was a very cheap station near work and b) I collected the loyalty points which brought the effective price down to match supermarkets. When the station was re-furbished and the price went up, I shifted to Sainsbury's standard because that was cheap and on my route home. I honestly can't say I noticed a difference either in driving or in MPG.
So if the OP is still reading - how's the experiment of not telling your other half going?

trailingspouse

Well, he's been driving for a week on 'normal' branded diesel (is that C IanMSpencer??) and hasn't mentioned anything.

Robisere

This subject crops up over and over and always degenerates into a few people having disagreements between themselves. It's boring. Just accept that people have prefences which are not necessarily based upon anything technical or scientific.