y-cam homemonitor ending free cloud recording

plunet

plunet wrote: »

I have put the following request into the Consumer Advice service via their web form.

Hello, I am the owner of 3 domestic CCTV cameras sold by Y-Cam Solutions Ltd under their Homemonitor brand. The products were purchased through Amazon UK, and Y-Cam were on the face of it a trusted brand. In an increasingly crowded market of domestic CCTV, Y-Cam devices unique selling point and their main route to market was that their cameras came with a free cloud-based recording service.

Their products were more expensive than their competitors, but this was due to the added feature of the cloud based recording, they clearly advertised that they came 7 days free cloud recording in online reviews, on Amazon, on their packaging and documentation, and didn't state any limitations. There was an optional upgrade to increase your recording capacity from 7 days to 30 days (Y-Cam Plus), and the product came with a one month free trial of the 30 day service.

Last week it appears that Y-Cam Solutions Ltd no longer wishes to offer the free cloud based backup and wishes to charge £2.99 per month per camera to maintain this service. If we do not elect to pay this subscription then the cameras become stream only, and for me this will will be a significant change and departure from their advertised and marketed purpose, and the cameras will be no longer fit for purpose.
I query whether Y-Cam Solutions Ltd have the right to do this based upon the absence of details in their terms about the specifics of the free cloud recording service and the way they have marketed their products.

It appears that many other customers of Y-Cam are facing a similar issue. Just search for Y-Cam on facebook and twitter, TrustedReviews website for Y-Cam https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.y-cam.com and also refer to this forum thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5752846

Can you please review whether Y-Cam have the right to withdraw their cloud based recording service which was clearly advertised as being "free forever".

Here's the response I have received:

Thank you for your enquiry to the Citizens Advice consumer service dated 03/12/2017. Your reference number is XXXXXXXX and should be quoted for any further correspondence in relation to this issue.

We understand from your email a trader now wants to charge for service which was previously free.

You would like advice regarding this.

Your rights and obligation

Under common law, when you enter into a contract, both parties are bound by any terms and conditions that have formed part of any pre-contract negotiations. We would advise you to thoroughly read these to see if the trader is able to charge.

If nothing related to your issue is included in the terms and conditions, or, the trader is not following terms included, you may be able to hold the trader in breach of contract.

You may be able to seek redress from the trader for a breach of contract by repudiating the contract; this means bringing the contract to an end. Alternatively, you may request the trader honour the contract as agreed and seek damages; damages could be for a monetary amount you feel is reasonable to compensate for the breach.

The burden of proof is on yourself as the consumer, therefore you will need to provide evidence if the trader is not complying with the terms and conditions.

Your next steps

We would suggest that you contact the trader and request a copy of their formal complaints procedure and follow this. If the trader does not have a complaints procedure, we recommend you send a letter outlining the reasons for your complaint. We would suggest setting a reasonable deadline for a response, keeping a copy of any correspondence for your records and sending any letters by recorded delivery; that way the mail will be tracked and signed for. Template letters can be found here, and a sample of recorded delivery can be found here.

As part of your complaint we would recommend you ask the trader if they are a member of an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme (ADR) or, if they’re not, would they be willing to use a non-membership based scheme. ADR schemes are independent bodies that offer services such as arbitration or mediation if your complaint is still unresolved after following the trader’s complaints process.

What we will do

We will notify Trading Standards of information you have provided, there is no commitment for them to contact you directly, and they will only contact you if they deem it necessary. Whilst this does not help you resolve your dispute, it gives Trading Standards vital intelligence on how a trader is conducting their business.

If you would like to discuss this further please call us on 03454 04 05 06 or reply to this email.

As far as I can see, from my reading of the T&Cs that were in force at the time of the purchase there was nothing explicity stated regarding the 7 day free recording service. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. Therefore the contract would be formed upon the basis of what was advertised initially on their packaging and instructions, and possibly extended to other collatoral like advertising and ecommerce store descriptions. Whilst their T&Cs clearly state that they can be changed from time to time with 14 days notice, this is a detrimental change to which the consumer has little remedy other than to pay for the previously free service, and is clearly at odds with the intent of the service advertised. I think a small claims court judge would probably find in favour of the consumer for any reasonable remedy they care to request. It will be interersting if Trading Standards now pick up on this, I think it would be more likely if more people submit cases to the Citizens Advice consumer service.

I work in IT, and the cost of cloud computing has decreased in recent years, espeically at the volume of storage and bandwidth that Y-Cam will be purchasing (from Amazon). Despite this I think Y-Cam have seemingly made a miscalulation in the premium on the purchase price of the cameras to fund the 7 day free cloud service "forever" which is not enough in the face of a lack of paid for Y-Cam Plus (30 day) subscriptions, or the cameras are lasting longer than Y-Cam intended and are being "too reliable". This is ultimately their mistake, but it seems like it could be a costly one.

longwalks1

Ive had OK rom Amazon to return the 2 x cams I bought new in July this year, they did cost me £129 and £99. Been offered a refund of £99 and £79 for them, is this right? Or should i get the full amount?

PaulTWarwick

I've just had two cameras from February accepted for return to Amazon at the full price I purchased them at. A credit of £250 once they receive them back... They were also OK that I don't have the original packaging.

PaulTWarwick

I have one Y-Cam camera that I can't return as I purchased via eBay two years ago. I won't be paying Y-Cam for any subscription and will just use it in future as a standard webcam with no recording.
I agree with all the previous posts and that they should have kept to the original commitment for a FREE rolling 7 day storage. They have managed to destroy the trust of their customers and damage their brand reputation so much that I would imagine that they will have real difficulties selling products going forward. Even if I thought the subscription was reasonable, I can't imagine they will still be operating this time next year to continue delivering the service. I have already ordered my replacement cameras from one of their competitors !

ballyblack

Been offered a refund of £99 and £79 for them, is this right? Or should i get the full amount?

As far as I know Amazon is refunding the price you orginally paid

hichoslew

As far as I can see, most people are fine if pre-existing customers are not affected by the change. I genuinely believe Y-cam has also analysed this option, which however is not something they are willing to be committed to. What this implies is that Y-cam is well aware that without forcing the huge "majority" (as they stated on their Facebook page) of their existing customer base to pay, they are unlikely to survive by just charging the new customers.

This clearly indicates the nature of the change and further emphases that lifetime free cloud storage was the whole selling point. The camera products and the app are just not competitive enough in any other way. This is at the very least false advertising regulated under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Tisanes

I have received a full refund from Amaz for 4 out of 5 cameras, bought over past 3 years ( most without boxes) since the 1st Dec. They seem to now be jibing at the 5th, advising me to contact manufacturer. Will perservere

ballyblack

I have received a full refund from Amaz for 4 out of 5 cameras, bought over past 3 years ( most without boxes) since the 1st Dec.

There must be thousands of these cameras being returned to amazon.

Any ideas what Amazon is going to do with these old weather beaten cameras??

iDragon

I doubt it's thousands, but wouldn't be surprised at hundreds.

plunet

Looks like the IT Press have now picked up on this issue...

Y-cam removes free cloud storage for its cameras