Managing agents/Management Companies

honest_home_owner

Hello, its been circa 3 years since I have been on this board. And this is really more a conversation than a cry for help.

I live on a non adopted estate (local council don't want to take on the costs of the common parts) and consequently a management company was set up to provide for the upkeep of the common parts.

The management company in turn has appointed a managing agents.

The management agents have appointed UKPC to control the parking.

The estate has a electric gate and limited parking (thank you Two Jags Prescott and your PPG3 laws) many people on the estate have more than one car and I will tell you why.

The estate is a mix of freehold houses and lease hold flats. The houses have one allocated bay and a garage (that is physically to small to park a car and open the car door to exit the vehicle). The flats unfortunately only have the one bay.

Before we bought the property there was a lot of confusion on the estate due to the limited number of bays, the government thought every ought to take public transport. But the public transport is unreliable, costly and inconvenient.

So decision was made to bring in UKPC to control the parking and the old timers on the estate still talk about the early horror days of what sounds like complete chaos.

So we moved in 5 years ago and began our first experience of private parking companies (I never knew such things existed). We had some run ins and ding dongs and in the end I park my car in my freehold bay with out displaying a permit. This is after 3 to 5 tickets were ignored and another 5 we responded to forcefully and had apologies and rescinded.

Couple of months back father in law visits and uses my bay to park and quick as a flash a UKPC yellow nasty is applied. So I fire of my angry letter, but quell surprise they reject my angry letter and still want money

I speak to the managing agents and after some angry words they absolve themselves of all responsibility. I am directed to the parking committee of the management company.

So I meet with the company director and explain my situation, looking to get the charge squashed. A request for £15 admin fees is rejected (my land why should I pay a 3rd party anything?) To which I am told that as I am on a non adopted estate I have to comply with the rules.

Surely if they want UKPC for the common parts that is up to them, but I am not giving any authority to anyone to collect monies from parking in my freehold bay. I tried to reverse the situation that I dont consent to anyone else parking in my pay with out my permission just because they have a UKPC sticker.

Management company is of the opinion UKPC is a good thing, my experience is UKPC are the only !!!!!!s generating parking problems.

The world is mad I tell you! Mad!

Your views?

Fruitcake

Above all else, complain to your MP and ask them to confirm that they will be supporting the forthcoming private members bill on this subject. Explain that your family's voting behaviour will depend on his/her reply.

Appeal the PCN even if it is out of time. Write to the MA that you withdraw any implied right of access to your demised property by them or their agents, and state that you refuse to partake in any (permit or otherwise) scheme where a third party carries out a for profit business on your demised property.

UKPC were caught doctoring time stamps on their photo' "evidence" a while back and got in trouble with the DVLA as a result. Do your research on this company and unregulated industry, and show it to the MA and your MP.

Coupon-mad

my freehold bay

You OWN the bay outright, freehold?! Then your bay is out of bounds to UKPC and they are trespassing.

Read this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

and then read the two MSE threads here on our forum by:

hairray

Daniel san

nosferatu1001

Indeed, if you have freehold title, then FRO is needed to UKPC and the management company. Cease and desist.

The_Deep

If they were to take this to court you might wish to counter-claim for invasion of privacy and trespass. Read this

honest_home_owner

Fruitcake wrote: »

Above all else, complain to your MP and ask them to confirm that they will be supporting the forthcoming private members bill on this subject. Explain that your family's voting behaviour will depend on his/her reply.

Appeal the PCN even if it is out of time. Write to the MA that you withdraw any implied right of access to your demised property by them or their agents, and state that you refuse to partake in any (permit or otherwise) scheme where a third party carries out a for profit business on your demised property.

UKPC were caught doctoring time stamps on their photo' "evidence" a while back and got in trouble with the DVLA as a result. Do your research on this company and unregulated industry, and show it to the MA and your MP.

Hi Fruitcake I tried looking up the wording for the private members bill, I found a link but I dont know which way this bill is going.

I am presuming it should be good thing but want to be double sure.

honest_home_owner

The_Deep wrote: »

If they were to take this to court you might wish to counter-claim for invasion of privacy and trespass. Read this

I think the link is missing?

honest_home_owner

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You OWN the bay outright, freehold?! Then your bay is out of bounds to UKPC and they are trespassing.

Read this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

and then read the two MSE threads here on our forum by:

hairray

Daniel san

Thanks very interesting reading, and disturbing at the same time. The parallels are uncanny.

In my case the management company cant distinguish between freehold and common parts. ie my parking bay.

And following my complaints the managing agent has just sent a letter round saying permits need to be displayed also failing to understand the difference between freehold and common parts.

My issue is that whilst I park my car and don't receive tickets (I appear to be on a UKPC ignore list) if I direct a visitor to park on my land and no permit is displayed UKPC insist on chasing it. All they need to do is listen to reason, but they seem to be thicker than two bricks and a short plank.

I have written to the management agents saying I don't want to play anymore, but they insist I must send all permits back (I lost one, and have another for visitors). So feel this limits my opportunity to have visitors.

The problems come when I have more than one visitor!

Speaking to the other houses they are not interested in getting rid of UKPC and a lot of the people in the flats are tenants. So feel they have to comply with the rules. Or decide the whole thing is rubbish and move on after six months to a year.

I threatened the management agents with removal and the management company director freely admitted the agents were dim, but at least they are cheap was the conclusion.

honest_home_owner

Many thanks to all of you for your help and opinions.

Whilst I would very much like to sue UKPC my wife and father in law feel I am being rather rash.

Apparently father in law saw some one on ITV pay many thousands of pounds to UKPC

I'm just please to have redirected the charge to myself, as I know he would have paid it.

Unfortunately I put forward I was the driver (lesson learnt), but on the basis that my car never gets ticketed (and I never display a permit when in my own bay).

I have received the Notice to driver and here is my proposed response. I have tried to get this squashed by both the managing agents and management company, but they dont understand freehold v common parts. So much as the response was I don't want get into legalese.

Anyway is this sufficient to get a POPLA code and wind up UKPC?

I challenge this 'PCN'.

I wish to make four points clear
1) My details were not provided to you by the keeper of the car
2) UK Parking Control Ltd’s terms and conditions of parking were not clearly and prominently displayed and were not agreed to as they were illegible, small and unlit. I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.
3) You have no authority to ticket cars parked in this bay with out landowner permission.
4) If you seek to pursue this matter I will sue you for invasion of privacy and trespass at a minimum.

You must cancel the charge. Failure of which I request a Popla code, where I will demonstrate that your charge fails. So on your bike you scum.

System

In my case the management company cant distinguish between freehold and common parts. ie my parking bay.

Yes they can if it is on the title. If it is not on the title then you may have some difficulties. Have you checked what it says at the Land Registry compared with what you consider to be your space. It costs a princely £3.

nosferatu1001

Indeed, check exactly above. If it is your land, free and clear, then UKPC need to be told to FRO and to never, ever enter your space. You can point out that you can show evidence of damage - harassment and breach of the DPA - and as such an ijunciton and actual costs for trespass are not out of the question.