Bad survey and estate agent

nicos42

Hi all so depressed... months looking found the perfect Victorian, spent money on mortgage, solicitors and full survey...
survey came back pretty bad. Roof serious issues needs fixing tiles replace might as well do all of them.

The vendor rendered the house which blocked the air bricks leaving house in danger of dry rot. Damp found in both seating / dinning room and floor needs to be pulled out and I assume replace with concrete floor and than whatever on top.

I love the house. My offer is more than fair. Work would be a major distraction and I think in region of 15 k plus I might have to rent somewhere.

Is it usual to ask solicitor to contact their solicitors and formally offer them 20 k less? More? In case of unforeseen other problems?

A buyer has pulled out on this house and I asked the estate agent why. They gave me the blurb that buyer lost their job. I m convinced now that they had a negative survey too.

First time buyer here loosing the very little hair I have left (

G_M

You may be right that there's a lot wrong, in which case, your money was well-spent on a survey and you can pull out now r re-negotiate.

But I suspect you are over-reacting and it's not that bad.

nicos42 wrote: »

....
survey came back pretty bad. Roof serious issues needs fixing tiles replace might as well do all of them.
How many tiles?
Fixing /replacing tiles is not a major job. A man goes up a ladder with some new tiles costing £1.00 each, and fixs them. Depending how many, it's an hours work? Half a day? A full day max if there are a lot.

'Do all of them?' It's very rare for a roof to need a full re-tile.

I suggest you either

* go visit with a pair of binoculars and examine the roof tiles yourself, and/or

* ring the surveyor and ask exactly how many tiles, and/or

* send a roofer round

The vendor rendered the house which blocked the air bricks leaving house in danger of dry rot.
Chi off the render over the air bricks. The air will then start to re-circulate under the floor.
Damp found in both seating / dinning room and floor needs to be pulled out and I assume replace with concrete floor and than whatever on top.
If (and only if) the lack of air circulation has resulted in extensive damp or dry rot, there may be some work to do.

More likely there's some damp caused by insuffficient air circulation which will dry out once you expose the air bricks.

Only way to know is to lift some floorboards and look underneath (which the seller might not want done especially if there's fitted carpets).

I doubt it's a concrete floor if there are air bricks.

.... Work would be a major distraction and I think in region of 15 k plus I might have to rent somewhere.
Where does the £15K figure come from?

Is it usual to ask solicitor to contact their solicitors and formally offer them 20 k less? More? In case of unforeseen other problems?
If you want to reduce your offer, it's usual to do so via estate agent. Once a new price is agreed, inform your solicitor.

Whether the seller will agree to negotiate is anyone's guess.

A buyer has pulled out on this house and I asked the estate agent why. They gave me the blurb that buyer lost their job. I m convinced now that they had a negative survey too.
You'll never know.

First time buyer here loosing the very little hair I have left (

Jasmine tea.

JoJo1978

It's up to you when and by how much you drop an offer by before you exchange contracts. However it will be a more productive negotiation if you get some quotes for the work that needs doing, rather than guess. It would be fairly normal practice for the vendors to also get quotes then use the two sets to negotiate from. Other decision points will be who does the work, them before exchange or you after completion. If they really need to sell and this is not the first time a poor survey has come back they may well appreciate a buyer willing to take it on even if they get a lower offer.

bowlhead99

You can ask your solicitors to ask whatever you like of their solicitors.

Or - either direct or by your solicitor - ask it of the estate agent who is the person that the seller usually expects to handle price discussions. When you go through "the legal channels" it always seems more formal - solicitors and conveyancers aren't really there to discuss pricing with buyers and will only say they will forward your comments to their clients. Whereas estate agents are more likely to engage in dialogue on their seller's behalf in an amicable discussion which can come off as a fair and reasonable chat and price adjustment rather than warfare via one legal missive after another.

You say your offer is "more than fair" ; maybe it was too high for what was a 100+ year old place with potential for a lot to need doing to it. Was it not at all evident that there would be work to do, when you made the offer?

I think a reduction of offer for unexpected costs which weren't factored into your offer, is not unreasonable. If it is stuff where the remedial work is actually needed now - rather than being a nice-to-have in a year's time - and the disruption would be a real pain, then sure, drop the offer. Just be aware that someone else who thinks it's the "perfect Victorian" and is fully expecting to roll their sleeves up and do some work, may not mind paying a higher amount, so if you drop your offer you might not get it. Which is fine if you don't want to pay that much.

But you need to be clear in your own mind "what would I reeeeaaaly pay if I had to" and go in with a 'revised' fair offer below that which leaves headroom for them to counter offer when they inevitably think you're being unreasonable. We have no idea if this is £15-20k on a £50k house or a £550k house though - latter would be easier for seller to swallow.

I am not a fan of buyers who say "I want *more* than the 15-20k off because of 'unforseen extra problems'...". The point of a survey is to help you foresee the problems and can be a pointer to you to get a quote for prospective works more detailed than "hmm, I reckon I could do it for £15k" before you go back and say "right I'm no longer going to stick by this offer I made you, it needs to be lower by £x. The vendor wants to know how much lower and why, so they don't have you saying the same "needs to be lower again" a few more weeks down the road for a different reason.

So by all means make one final reduced offer rather than the "death by a thousand cuts" of a new lowered offer each week - otherwise the seller will be tearing their own hair out and eventually give up on you. But try to put some substance behind it. No point saying "£15k for work, £5k for inconvenience, £10k for unforseen stuff".

They will say "what sort of unforseen stuff will increase your costs by 70% and needs to be my (vendors) expense?!" You might say "well, contingency, what if xyz needs doing?". And they will then point you to your independent survey which does not say it needs doing. And maybe to your mortgage valuation which shows the bank is willing to accept £x as a fair value of the house anyway, and the bank are not idiots.

Long story short, if you haven't exchanged and want to reoffer lower, you can. To avoid coming off as a time waster, make sure the new offer is a serious one and be prepared to walk (because starting to pretend to walk, might mean they get a different buyer in, if they aren't desperate for the cash in the next X weeks). Just be prepared to justify why the old price is unreasonable given the circumstances. After all, the vendor will say, you are not buying a new build, if the roof was brand new with 25 year life in it, we would have asked £20k more, so you cant make us buy you all this building work to make the house "good as new".

At the end of the day it comes down to, what would some other buyer be willing to pay, and when might they find that other buyer. If they believe other buyers will offer 5% under asking and then knock off a further £20k upon seeing the survey, they might be happy to take the reduction you want to get.

nicos42

Thanks bowlhead very comprehensive. Yes the offer is fair studying all prices around but for a house with no issues. I understand is nearly 100 years old but the roof should be fine also the damp should be sorted and the fire hazard in the roof fixed.

I Ll try get some quotes going forward. I love it but not that much to end up in negative equity e.g. Buying it for x having to spend 15 to put it right but than not being able to sell it for x plus 15. You are right about other buyers knocking off 5% than offering less 20 k.... they survey is grimm. I m wild estimating repair costs but I m not that far out . I love the house but it's all the price reductions going about I have the upper hand. I do really truly feel they knew about the issues and that is why the previous buyer pulled out. Is all very convenient that next door is changing the roof. I think the house is worth the asking price minus a little. And I m not talking about dump or issues in 1 year I m talking about issues discovered on the date of offer. I don't take into account further work but work required now. Thank you and much appreciate the answers. My take of them get proper builders quotes don't half guess than do a second offer. Where do I find a damp specialist? Goolglr
.

G_M

nicos42 wrote: »

Where do I find a damp specialist? Goolglr
.

Well don't get a free [STRIKE]survey[/STRIKE] sales inspection offered by a [STRIKE]surveyor[/STRIKE] salesman working for a damp proofing company!

Other decision points will be who does the work, them before exchange or you after completion.

Never get the seller to do the work. They are moving on and have no incentive to do anything more than the bare minimum, done by the cheapest cowboy they can find.

Cakeguts

Unless you have a lot of spare cash this house is probably not suitable for a first time buyer. Older houses need higher maintenance so you have to have a lot of spare cash. If you think that the maintenance that the survey has shown up is likely to be too expensive for you don't buy the house. Once you have got that lot fixed the next lot will start to come round.

nicos42

Thank G-M I Ll look for paid survey. Hi cakeguts... I realise olde houses are high maintenance and will budget for it. But damp is major and when is sorted it doesn't need to be a future issue. I know soon after I buy I m replacing electrics, boiler etc but I expect that. But I don't want to pay for new flooring due to poor maintained of vendor

Cakeguts

nicos42 wrote: »

Thank G-M I Ll look for paid survey. Hi cakeguts... I realise olde houses are high maintenance and will budget for it. But damp is major and when is sorted it doesn't need to be a future issue. I know soon after I buy I m replacing electrics, boiler etc but I expect that. But I don't want to pay for new flooring due to poor maintained of vendor

You are buying a house that might or might not have been well maintained by the seller. The survey tells you about this. You then decide if the price is what you want to pay for the house knowing the issues it has. If you think it is overpriced you can ask for a reduction in price and the seller can either say yes or no. If they say no then you decide whether you want to proceed or not.

Margot123

Don't let your heart rule your head, and bank balance.

If you are having doubts now, what will you be like when you have committed to the purchase and have a shed load of money and time to spend on it?

G_M

I'm still not convinced that the roof, air brics, damp and floor are necessarily that major.

Have you spoken to the surveyor yet?
Have been back and looked at the roof and floor yourself?
Have you arranged a roofer?

When you say "floor needs to be pulled " do you mean it needs lifting to inspect underneath (because the air bricks are blocked), or do you mean the damp is so excessive thatt the entire floor has rotted and needs replacing?

If the former, there is no cerrtainty there's a problem with the floor!

If the latter - how could you have missed that yourself? the smell, the spongy floor, the sight....