Instruct structural engineer or surveyor?

dllive

Hi,

Im looking to buy a property that needs renovation. Theres a couple of particular concerns I have (the timber structure supporting the roof, and cracks which might be subsidence).

Ive contacted a surveyor and he has said we need a Structural Element Survey Report and will cost about £600. However, the builder I have lined up employs a structural engineer.

Ive had a few builders look at the place and they say the cracks are probably just settlement and the roof looks fine.

Im looking for some definitive answers to my questions. Will the surveyor be able to do this? If he says 'the roof is fine' but it turns out its not, am I able to claim off his insurance?

The alternative would be to ask my builder's Structural Engineer to answer my concerns about subsidence/roof.

What do you think I should do? I dont want to spend £600 on a surveyor for him to say "well, it could be subsidence but it might not be". What would the benefit (if there is one) of choosing the surveyor over the Structural Engineer?

Thanks

hazyjo

Our buyers sent a 'structural engineer' to check out cracks in the upstairs bay window. Hope that helps to some extent! He was there for 5 mins and said all was okay. No idea what he wrote in his actual report though.


Not sure about the roof.


I doubt you'll be able to sue anyone if it goes wrong as they'll only cover themselves up to that date of the report, and I'm sure there's be lots of @rse-covering clauses in it anyway.


How many people have you sent round to the property now? Your sellers are obviously being very cooperative/patient

bowlhead99

Are you buying with support of a mortgage? If so, and the surveyor has said you need a survey covering the structural elements, then the fact the builder trying to sell you building services says, "don't worry, it'll probably be ok", may not satisfy the lender even if you are happy with the risk personally and your own concerns have been satisfied.

In other words, to keep the lender onside the 'report' should be independent from you and the seller and your advisors even if you're paying for it - so that the lender knows that he's not lending you hundreds of thousands secured on a building that will fall down or need loads of remedial work before it could be sold.

If you don't need to satisfy a third party such as a lender taking a charge over the property, you just have to go with what your budget and peace of mind will allow.

You're right of course that surveyors writing reports tend to disclaim as much responsibility as they possibly can. Likewise builders selling you their recommended way of doing something might not give you a warranty on pre-existing problems if they haven't had you pay a separate fee for their qualified opinion on the best way to do it. Is their "structural engineer" fully trained and independently qualified or is it just their internal job title for the guy on the minimum wage crew who knows the most about structural stuff?

dllive

bowlhead99 wrote: »

Are you buying with support of a mortgage? If so, and the surveyor has said you need a survey covering the structural elements, then the fact the builder trying to sell you building services says, "don't worry, it'll probably be ok", may not satisfy the lender even if you are happy with the risk personally and your own concerns have been satisfied.

In other words, to keep the lender onside the 'report' should be independent from you and the seller and your advisors even if you're paying for it - so that the lender knows that he's not lending you hundreds of thousands secured on a building that will fall down or need loads of remedial work before it could be sold.

If you don't need to satisfy a third party such as a lender taking a charge over the property, you just have to go with what your budget and peace of mind will allow.

You're right of course that surveyors writing reports tend to disclaim as much responsibility as they possibly can. Likewise builders selling you their recommended way of doing something might not give you a warranty on pre-existing problems if they haven't had you pay a separate fee for their qualified opinion on the best way to do it. Is their "structural engineer" fully trained and independently qualified or is it just their internal job title for the guy on the minimum wage crew who knows the most about structural stuff?

The lender has done a drive-by valuation and are satisfied.

I basically want someone to give me some definitive answers as to the cracks and the roof structure. Is this just not possible? Can someone look at a property and say "yes this has subsidence" or not?

I dont want to pay £600 for a surveyor to say exactly the same as what a structural engineer could tell me for free (or close to free).

Cakeguts

dllive wrote: »

The lender has done a drive-by valuation and are satisfied.

I basically want someone to give me some definitive answers as to the cracks and the roof structure. Is this just not possible? Can someone look at a property and say "yes this has subsidence" or not?

I dont want to pay £600 for a surveyor to say exactly the same as what a structural engineer could tell me for free (or close to free).

If you want to know about the stability of the building you need a structural engineers report before you buy it.

If you want to know about needing a new kitchen or new render on the chimney you need a surveyor.

A surveyor will tell you what needs repairing.

A structural engineer will tell you if it is about to fall down.

dllive

Cakeguts wrote: »

If you want to know about the stability of the building you need a structural engineers report before you buy it.

If you want to know about needing a new kitchen or new render on the chimney you need a surveyor.

A surveyor will tell you what needs repairing.

A structural engineer will tell you if it is about to fall down.

OK great thanks. Should I ask my builder if his structural engineer is accredited? (if thats the right term). In other words, I want to make sure he actually is a structural engineer and not just what they call him at the office! Also, should I expect something in writing from him once he's had a look?

This is obviously the first time Ive done this, but ideally what I want is something in writing stating that the roof structure is fine and theres no subsidence. That would give me peace of mind.

Thanks all for your help so far.

G_M

Given your concern and apparant level of anxiety, yes, you should get something in writing.

Your builder will charge you for his SE to write a report unless you are very lucky and the builder is very confident he'll eventuall get a decent contrsct from you.

Ask if the SE is a member of https://www.istructe.org/finding-a-structural-engineer

If you use a surveyor and he has doubts or concerns about the roof or cracks, he'll recommend in his report that you instruct a Structural Engineer.

Think GP and cancer consultant. (The surveyor is the GP).

dllive

G_M wrote: »

Given your concern and apparant level of anxiety, yes, you should get something in writing.

Your builder will charge you for his SE to write a report unless you are very lucky and the builder is very confident he'll eventuall get a decent contrsct from you.

Ask if the SE is a member of https://www.istructe.org/finding-a-structural-engineer

If you use a surveyor and he has doubts or concerns about the roof or cracks, he'll recommend in his report that you instruct a Structural Engineer.

Think GP and cancer consultant. (The surveyor is the GP).

Thankyou - very helpful. I will progress with the SE.