Another Section 21 question

clutton_2

i sign all my ASTs in the premises Bob, as i hand over the keys

coal9011

clutton wrote: »

i sign all my ASTs in the premises Bob, as i hand over the keys

I would like to know WHY do you serve Section 21 Noice at the start of your tenancies?

Is it because you are afraid of potentially allowing a "Bad" tenant into your property and you want to be in a position to be able to get one out as soon as possible?

Is it because you do not want to allow "good" tenant's security of tenure?

or do you have some other reason? (possible loop-hole, so lets try and exploit it)

guppy

Cissi wrote: »

I'm still confused about the bit about "if he was ever trying to get you out" though. As things stand right now, surely he only needs to give us 2 months notice without providing a reason? And even if both parties sign the renewal agreement, there is also a 2-month notice mutual break clause in there, so what's the difference?

This makes no sense!

I'm not an expert, but I'm not even sure a break clause can be so loosely defined that it undermines the basic tenancy itself.

The landlord is offering you a six month or year long AST, but where both parties can terminate it at any time with two months notice! So basically the only thing to distinguish the agreement from a periodic tenancy is the fact that you have to give two months notice, rather than one. Under a periodic tenancy, the LL is already obligated to give you at least two months notice.

Would this agreement even be recognised by a court?

A break clause is usually an option to end the tenancy at a specific date, e.g. half way through a 12 month tenancy.

This doesn't apply because you've already been in occupation for over six months, but if you hadn't, its not even legally possible to create a residential tenancy for less than six months.

BobProperty

coal9011 wrote: »

I would like to know WHY do you serve Section 21 Noice at the start of your tenancies?

Is it because you are afraid of potentially allowing a "Bad" tenant into your property and you want to be in a position to be able to get one out as soon as possible?

Is it because you do not want to allow "good" tenant's security of tenure?

or do you have some other reason? (possible loop-hole, so lets try and exploit it)

I'm sure I answered this one somewhere recently. The reason I was advised landlords should do this is that the tenant can't deny receiving the S21 at a later date. They can hardly pretend not to have received it when they signed for it shortly after their tenancy started. That is all. It does cause uncertainty as we have often discussed on here but the way the law is currently written at present it is a lawful practise.

clutton_2

Bob """I put it to you"" i just lurve it when you go into barristorial mode !!!

i want good tenants to stay with me for years and years - indeed many have. i do not plan to be selling for 15 years or more.

many of my longest term tenants are on periodics, years later, because we have such a good trusting business relationship that we each are open and honest with each other. if any of them did want to renew, i would remove the SEction 21 as there is no need for me to worry.

But, in spite of all the who-haa on this board about S21 i have NEVER been asked why i include it by tenants - but i explain it anyway (see my notes which accompany the Section 21 i put up here a dayor two back)

clutton_2

here is a perfect example - hot off the press - and in 7 years this is the first time i shall be using a Section 21 in anger. One of my best tenants has been beaten up by her new boyfriend who lives two doors up with his mum in another of my properties. She is a wonderful young lass bringing up her child in difficult circumstances, and studying to help get her a college place. She did not deserve this.

She had always planned to stay with me for the next 10 years at least. She has now moved in with relatives as she is too scared to continue living in my house. And yes she will get her deposit back, as non of this was her fault. As well as beating her up he has removed some fixtures and fittings and stolen his childs dvd player and her wardrobe, my laminate flooring, her computer and her top set box.

section 21 court application - first thing tomorrow - with NO regrets whatsoever - he's out.

come on - lets hear some rational defence for the tenants part in all this then ?

people who behave like this deserve no notice - but it will still take me about 6 weeks to get him out.

Notlob

its not even legally possible to create a residential tenancy for less than six months.

I think you will find it is ok to have a tenancy for less than 6 months. LL just can't issue a section 21 to expire no earlier than six months. However, tenants can leave after only 3 months if that was the initial term.

Notlob

coal9011

clutton wrote: »

here is a perfect example - hot off the press - and in 7 years this is the first time i shall be using a Section 21 in anger. One of my best tenants has been beaten up by her new boyfriend who lives two doors up with his mum in another of my properties. She is a wonderful young lass bringing up her child in difficult circumstances, and studying to help get her a college place. She did not deserve this.

She had always planned to stay with me for the next 10 years at least. She has now moved in with relatives as she is too scared to continue living in my house. And yes she will get her deposit back, as non of this was her fault. As well as beating her up he has removed some fixtures and fittings and stolen his childs dvd player and her wardrobe, my laminate flooring, her computer and her top set box.

section 21 court application - first thing tomorrow - with NO regrets whatsoever - he's out.

come on - lets hear some rational defence for the tenants part in all this then ?

people who behave like this deserve no notice - but it will still take me about 6 weeks to get him out.

________________________________________________________________________________________

A perfect example of the correct and wholly justified (both legally & morally) use of a Section 21 Notice. :T

(although the rareity of such circumstances really does not justify regular issue of S21's at the beginning of all agreements - sorry!)

BobProperty

clutton wrote: »

Bob """I put it to you"" i just lurve it when you go into barristorial mode !!!.....

I'll try and stop doing it then! Got a few things going on in courts where I have to be careful exactly what I put into writing and what I say so I'm just practising.

clutton_2

i'm taking someone to court tomorrow for the first time, its only taken me since January to get it into court ! I'm preparing my "opening statement" - but i think "put it to you" is a bit OTT for the small claims court !! good luck with yours