PCN Euro Car Parks

KeithP

Over three days have passed since you told us you were going to send the blue template appeal and you still haven't sent it.

Why do you think someone is going to tell you to add pictures to the blue appeal when they have already said, many times, 'send the blue template as it is'?

Stop procrastinating. Get on with it.

azz007

been busy away with work, submitted the appeal online and have recieved acknowldgemnt to my email says could take upto 35 days. this is going to be long i guess.

azz007

appeal has been rejected. see the resposne. tbh the driver didnt pay & display at all SO there wasnt even an overstay. so is there any chance at popla? they have given a POPLA code. not sure what real points to argue as they state its a breach of their contract and no VRM details entered into machine or via PAYBYPHONE. the car park doesnt require the driver to display a ticket either.

see their rejection letter and site photos , id appreciated further advice on their points

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ul55nriethhmhh/AADz4iuVTfuQYdu6mdPq2-hGa?dl=0

Coupon-mad

so is there any chance at popla? they have given a POPLA code

ECP don't sue people so no need to panic (and if they did and you lost the hearing, you'd just pay).

Unless you want to 'bail out' at £60 now? Your money, your choice. If you lose at POPLA it's then £100 but even if you lose we'd still say that we would not pay this extortionate charge.

Personally, I would always try POPLA, where potentially, you can still win on such favourite issues as:

- no landowner authority (blah blah, using the template about 'no landowner authority' from the NEWBIES thread, post #3 of that sticky). Albeit ECP themselves sometimes lease or own some car parks...

- the images on the NTK only show a VRN in isolation, and do not pinpoint the location at all

- the signage is very high with the disputed £100 sum being hidden and totally unreadable. Only when zooming in on the image of the sign can you just (if peering at the image with the benefit of a computer) make out in non-bold small print, half the size of the tariff charges. This appears to be deliberate, there is no other explanation. In real time in the car park the only sums displayed at the machines are the fees/tariffs, not any penalty, which was never agreed and comes as a surprise to a driver who would never have parked for £100. These signs are nothing like the clear sign in the Beavis case (blah blah, using the template about signage from the NEWBIES thread, post #3 of that sticky).

- the operator confusingly sent a postal 'PCN' followed by a postal 'Notice to Keeper' each showing two completely different 28 day periods, and the second letter had an 'issue date' which does not correspond with the issue date of the first notice, such that the liability timeline is unclear (weeks out) and ambiguous.

azz007

this land is an old saisnburys which has been closed down and the car park is operated by ECP. so might be a CASE of no land owner authority.. just maybe...

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If you lose at POPLA it's then £100 but even if you lose we'd still say that we would not pay this extortionate charge.

And how would one argue this even at POPLA loss

Coupon-mad wrote: »

the images on the NTK only show a VRN in isolation, and do not pinpoint the location at all

Good point as keeper i can argue the case as on other occasioss for work the driver has parked there with VRM entered correctly and so on....

Coupon-mad wrote: »

- the operator confusingly sent a postal 'PCN' followed by a postal 'Notice to Keeper' each showing two completely different 28 day periods, and the second letter had an 'issue date' which does not correspond with the issue date of the first notice, such that the liability timeline is unclear (weeks out) and ambiguous.

not sure what you mean by this... I only had 1 postal NTK AFAIK???

Coupon-mad

Did they not send a 'PCN' followed by a 'NTK' then, like they usually do?

And how would one argue this even at POPLA loss

If you mean what do you actually do if you lose at POPLA = NOTHING, if no claim is served. Ignore.

azz007

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Did they not send a 'PCN' followed by a 'NTK' then, like they usually do?.

no way, you are right, there is no NTK. Only as keeper recieved a postal PCN from their ANPR detection.Saying about POFA 'If you were not the driver etc. see drop box share url

Event Date 06/11/17
Issued Date 10/11/17
The appeal date was 18/11 and rejection date today 18/12.

as keeper i didnt recieve any NTK. How long do they have to send this... But now at POPLA.
What are the options? Have i got any sort of case which increases the chances?

Redx

the postal PCN is the NTK, the postal Notice To Keeper

so the first invoice they sent in the post WAS the NTK, think about it !!

azz007

Redx wrote: »

the postal PCN is the NTK, the postal Notice To Keeper

so the first invoice they sent in the post WAS the NTK, think about it !!

The letter is only titled Parking Charge Notice. ( this letter could have even been a windscreen pcn)

Doesnt say anywhere or any heading that says Notice to Keeper or NTK ???

Redx

doesnt have to say anything at all, its not a regulated industry

its a windscreen Notice To Driver if placed on the vehicle (except the ones like the myparkingcharge notice by VCS) , which are affixed to the vehicle on the date of the incident

and a postal notice is sent to the keeper after the PPC have obtained keeper details from the DVLA, hence Notice To Keeper , which comes in the post and should come within 14 days to adhere to POFA2012