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VW dispute - faulty parts, bullied by VW staff, disabled father stranded, £1,400 bill
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I would first like to stipulate that I am a very reasonable person - I very rarely have any cause for dispute with anyone about anything. I know that people make mistakes, and that systems fail, etc., and I am generally a very tolerant person. I don't know how my writing below will come across to an external viewer, but as far as I can tell I'm not going mad, I am being mistreated by VW, and I am not being unreasonable when I say that I believe that the part replaced on my vehicle in 2015 was not fit for purpose when it failed just outside of the warranty period, and in less than a third of the miles that the original part lasted. If anyone can help or suggest what I should do next it would be much appreciated.
“Oil Cooler” timeline of events
Summary (correct as of 12th November)
Either:
- Faulty VW parts or labour
- Negligence on [Van centre’s name] part to carry out reasonable checks during repair of a fault in 2015
- Intentional deceit on [Van centre’s] part, by not notifying me that there could be an underlying fault with my vehicle, knowing that the same issue would occur at some point and that I would need to pay for further repairs
- A combination of the above
…has resulted in my car being parked up and unused pending satisfactory outcome, rendering my disabled father housebound (the vehicle is wheelchair-adapted and he can’t go very far unless I drive him).
Furthermore, the behaviour and actions of ‘GP’ from [Van Centre] have been appalling examples of customer service, including increasing the estimate cost of repair by 50% above what was originally quoted, and we suspect he has been deceiving UKCV by informing them of a different version of events to the experience we (the customer) have actually had.
Late February 2015
- Fault with vehicle diagnosed as a failure of “oil cooler”. This part had lasted the full 9 years and 71k miles lifetime of the vehicle so far.
- Total cost of repair/replacement of parts and labour, approximately £1,126
- Car back up and running within a few working days.
- No reason for the fault given by [Van Centre]. Nothing to suggest that there could be any other fault with the vehicle that would mean this fault could occur again.
Spring/Summer 2017 (just over two years later)
- Oil level checked in July. Looks quite low on the dipstick – unexpected, considering a full service and oil replacement has recently been undertaken at [Van Centre]. Oil level monitored in run-up to Scotland road trip, remains low on the stick.
- Become suspicious that there could be a problem due to lower than expected MPG.
o On a trip to a nearby town in early September, ‘check oil’ light comes on. Pull over, check dipstick – nothing on it at all (I know the engine was warm, but the dipstick was bare). Check Haynes manual for correct type of oil, and put 1l of quality oil in the car. Restart engine, oil light does not show.
o Later, when car has rested for several hours, oil now halfway up the dipstick. Something weird appears to be going on – it has plenty of oil now but didn’t earlier. Book vehicle in with VW for a check-up.
o (It is later suggested by a friend that there shouldn’t have been much of a dip in fuel economy, if any, with this kind of fault – perhaps there wasn’t as much of an issue with fuel economy as previously expected, but either way my suspicions/paranoia prompted me to get the vehicle booked in for a health check nonetheless.
2nd October 2017
- Vehicle dropped off at [Van centre] for diagnosis of possible fault affecting oil level.
o Mid-afternoon we are called, and the customer service man (name unknown) says “you need a new oil cooler, mate”. I am quoted £571.11+VAT. Since last failure, the part has lasted just over 2 years, and only a further 23k miles.
o I asked them not to take any action, as I want to consider my options – alarm bells are ringing that this is the same fault that we had fixed in 2015.
I receive a follow-up phone call offering 10% discount as a gesture of goodwill.
o Start looking online to see if this is a known issue. Lots of talk online about there being a problem with oil coolers on 2.5TDI engines on vehicles of a similar age. We mistakenly believe from this initial research that there should have been a recall on the vehicle due to a fault with this part.
o My father and I arrive at [Van centre] where the actual cost of repair is then quoted to us by customer service rep ‘V’ as being £571.11+VAT for parts, PLUS four-hundred-and-something pounds for labour, bringing the total cost to more than £1,100. Although it was disappointing to hear this significantly higher amount, this amount does makes sense as this is near enough the exact same cost as the previous repair in 2015 for the same fault.
We enquire about the vehicle’s history to check if it had ever been recalled to have the fault fixed. It had not. Through research we undertook later on, we discover that there was no official recall of vehicles to address this fault, there was however a ‘campaign’ to get VW to recall vehicles as this seems to be a common problem, but no recall was ever issued.
Week beginning 9th October 2017
- Several days after logging our concerns with ‘V’ the customer service rep at [Name of Van Centre], my father speaks with GP who my father later reports to me comes across as arrogant, unsympathetic to our problem, and unwilling to accept any possibility of liability or fault with the parts or work done by [Van centre]. GP claims that there could be an additional fault with the car resulting in high oil pressure, which in turn may have caused the fault with the oil cooler. My father asks GP what action was taken by [Van centre] during the previous repair in 2015 to measure the oil pressure or otherwise find the cause of the problem. It appears no efforts were made to measure the oil pressure. Therefore, if GP’s theory that high oil pressure caused the fault to the oil cooler part is correct, [Van centre] have knowingly made a temporary repair to my vehicle, knowing that the part would eventually fail again and that I would have to again pay for repairs. Either the part was not fit for purpose under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982 as it has prematurely failed after just 23,000 miles, or the part was OK but [Van Centre] have failed to notify us of a further problem with the vehicle knowing that this would in turn require us to return for further repairs in the future. This second outcome certainly does not fit in with VW’s image of good quality and good customer service. A nationally broadcast documentary several years ago featured a high-ranking member of staff from VW putting forward a vision of VW being the best in the world for quality and customer service. In our case we have had a massive failing of one or the other, or possibly both of those things.
- We seek further advice. We believe under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982 that the part that we were sold and had fitted to our vehicle was not fit for purpose – it lasted just 23,000 miles, and from all the pictures we have found on the web of such devices it appears to be a solid lump of metal with no moving parts, which one would assume means it is less likely to suffer ‘mechanical failure’ than moving parts. Enquiries to the Motoring Ombudsman reveals that VW is not a member of this organisation, however they suggest a call to Citizen’s Advice. CAB are told about this whole issue, and they suggest that we have a case under the 1982 Act. Their advice is to make sure [Van Centre] are given the chance to resolve the issue first of all, so we ask GP to send us in writing their best offer to resolve this issue….
October 27th
- Email received from GP. It is an ‘estimate’ for £1,721.26. This is approximately £600 more than the originally quoted cost of repair, and approximately £700 more than the original quote with 10% goodwill discount applied. This disappointing figure from GP is unfortunately reinforcing our belief that he is being deliberately obtuse and has no interest in dealing with us sensibly. I immediately look for and contact UKCV customer service and explain the situation. The rep puts me on hold, speaks to [Van Centre], comes back to me to say that my case had been ‘closed’ at [Van Centre] and that they’d need to open a new case and that my case will be looked at by the reps ‘managers’ who will make a decision within a couple of working days. Question: Who closed our ‘case’ at [Van Centre] and why?
October 31st
- Call from VWCV customer service rep. (Note: did not get her name, but I believe she was the same rep that I spoke to later in the week (see below), whose name was ‘M’ – see entry below for November 2nd). She says that the case has been looked at, but with “all things considered” (which she said included talking to [Van centre] to ascertain that “there is no known reason why the part should have failed, and that with any mechanical part, failures do happen”, and “a 2 year warranty is just for peace of mind” and that no manufacturer is under and legal obligation to provide a warranty), they will not be offering anything more than the 20% goodwill gesture discount the Van Centre has already offered. I inform her that we have not yet been offered a 20% discount and that I had in fact received an estimate for approximately £1,700 (and added that our interpretation of such an offer is that GP is being deliberately obtuse and is not interested in helping us). She reiterated that “20%” is what had been agreed with the Van Centre – so somebody at the Van Centre has been telling VWCV one thing, but actually doing/saying another with the customer. She apologised, and said that she will get the van centre to send over the costings with 20% discount applied within a few days. I explain to her that we were quoted on the 2nd October for approximately £1,100 (which is in keeping with the cost of the previous repair), and that I would therefore be expecting to see their best offer is at the very least a quote for the approximate value of £1,100 minus a 20% discount, although reiterated that we believe we should be receiving a free repair under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982.
November 2nd
- Phone call from ‘M’ from VWCV. She confirms that costings have been supplied by [Van centre] and that I should receive an email in the next couple of days confirming the quote with 20% discount applied. She added a comment along the lines of “They/he said that you’ve already been sent the original quote, so you should have that in your emails.” – this particular choice of words led me to say, “As I said to you on the phone the other day, I have received an estimate for approximately £1,700, but this was £600 more than the original quote, and £700 more than the original quote with 10% discount. Reading between the lines a little, it sounds to me like I’m about to receive a quote for £1,700 with 20% discount applied, which still makes the quote more than the original £1,100”. She told me again that the department she’s in does not get directly involved in costings that the van centres some up with, and that if we had questions about the costings we should speak to GP directly to ask why the prices seems to have gone up from the quoted price on the 2nd October. She also added that if I have a problem with GP’s conduct that I can contact the ‘Head of Business’ at the van centre, ‘DN’.
- November 2nd, 9pm-11pm – this document is typed up.
Week beginning 6th November
- Email from GP at [Van centre] has arrived – it’s a quote for more than £1400, which INCLUDES the 20% discount. This is still £300 more than the original quoted price, let alone 10% or 20% off that.
o Not pleased. Treatment from GP is appalling.
12th November
- Adjustments made to this document to remove identifying names and confirm that the ‘final offer’ received from GP at [Van Centre] is £300 more than the original quote, and over £400 more than the expected offer.
“Oil Cooler” timeline of events
Summary (correct as of 12th November)
Either:
- Faulty VW parts or labour
- Negligence on [Van centre’s name] part to carry out reasonable checks during repair of a fault in 2015
- Intentional deceit on [Van centre’s] part, by not notifying me that there could be an underlying fault with my vehicle, knowing that the same issue would occur at some point and that I would need to pay for further repairs
- A combination of the above
…has resulted in my car being parked up and unused pending satisfactory outcome, rendering my disabled father housebound (the vehicle is wheelchair-adapted and he can’t go very far unless I drive him).
Furthermore, the behaviour and actions of ‘GP’ from [Van Centre] have been appalling examples of customer service, including increasing the estimate cost of repair by 50% above what was originally quoted, and we suspect he has been deceiving UKCV by informing them of a different version of events to the experience we (the customer) have actually had.
Late February 2015
- Fault with vehicle diagnosed as a failure of “oil cooler”. This part had lasted the full 9 years and 71k miles lifetime of the vehicle so far.
- Total cost of repair/replacement of parts and labour, approximately £1,126
- Car back up and running within a few working days.
- No reason for the fault given by [Van Centre]. Nothing to suggest that there could be any other fault with the vehicle that would mean this fault could occur again.
Spring/Summer 2017 (just over two years later)
- Oil level checked in July. Looks quite low on the dipstick – unexpected, considering a full service and oil replacement has recently been undertaken at [Van Centre]. Oil level monitored in run-up to Scotland road trip, remains low on the stick.
- Become suspicious that there could be a problem due to lower than expected MPG.
o On a trip to a nearby town in early September, ‘check oil’ light comes on. Pull over, check dipstick – nothing on it at all (I know the engine was warm, but the dipstick was bare). Check Haynes manual for correct type of oil, and put 1l of quality oil in the car. Restart engine, oil light does not show.
o Later, when car has rested for several hours, oil now halfway up the dipstick. Something weird appears to be going on – it has plenty of oil now but didn’t earlier. Book vehicle in with VW for a check-up.
o (It is later suggested by a friend that there shouldn’t have been much of a dip in fuel economy, if any, with this kind of fault – perhaps there wasn’t as much of an issue with fuel economy as previously expected, but either way my suspicions/paranoia prompted me to get the vehicle booked in for a health check nonetheless.
2nd October 2017
- Vehicle dropped off at [Van centre] for diagnosis of possible fault affecting oil level.
o Mid-afternoon we are called, and the customer service man (name unknown) says “you need a new oil cooler, mate”. I am quoted £571.11+VAT. Since last failure, the part has lasted just over 2 years, and only a further 23k miles.
o I asked them not to take any action, as I want to consider my options – alarm bells are ringing that this is the same fault that we had fixed in 2015.
I receive a follow-up phone call offering 10% discount as a gesture of goodwill.
o Start looking online to see if this is a known issue. Lots of talk online about there being a problem with oil coolers on 2.5TDI engines on vehicles of a similar age. We mistakenly believe from this initial research that there should have been a recall on the vehicle due to a fault with this part.
o My father and I arrive at [Van centre] where the actual cost of repair is then quoted to us by customer service rep ‘V’ as being £571.11+VAT for parts, PLUS four-hundred-and-something pounds for labour, bringing the total cost to more than £1,100. Although it was disappointing to hear this significantly higher amount, this amount does makes sense as this is near enough the exact same cost as the previous repair in 2015 for the same fault.
We enquire about the vehicle’s history to check if it had ever been recalled to have the fault fixed. It had not. Through research we undertook later on, we discover that there was no official recall of vehicles to address this fault, there was however a ‘campaign’ to get VW to recall vehicles as this seems to be a common problem, but no recall was ever issued.
Week beginning 9th October 2017
- Several days after logging our concerns with ‘V’ the customer service rep at [Name of Van Centre], my father speaks with GP who my father later reports to me comes across as arrogant, unsympathetic to our problem, and unwilling to accept any possibility of liability or fault with the parts or work done by [Van centre]. GP claims that there could be an additional fault with the car resulting in high oil pressure, which in turn may have caused the fault with the oil cooler. My father asks GP what action was taken by [Van centre] during the previous repair in 2015 to measure the oil pressure or otherwise find the cause of the problem. It appears no efforts were made to measure the oil pressure. Therefore, if GP’s theory that high oil pressure caused the fault to the oil cooler part is correct, [Van centre] have knowingly made a temporary repair to my vehicle, knowing that the part would eventually fail again and that I would have to again pay for repairs. Either the part was not fit for purpose under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982 as it has prematurely failed after just 23,000 miles, or the part was OK but [Van Centre] have failed to notify us of a further problem with the vehicle knowing that this would in turn require us to return for further repairs in the future. This second outcome certainly does not fit in with VW’s image of good quality and good customer service. A nationally broadcast documentary several years ago featured a high-ranking member of staff from VW putting forward a vision of VW being the best in the world for quality and customer service. In our case we have had a massive failing of one or the other, or possibly both of those things.
- We seek further advice. We believe under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982 that the part that we were sold and had fitted to our vehicle was not fit for purpose – it lasted just 23,000 miles, and from all the pictures we have found on the web of such devices it appears to be a solid lump of metal with no moving parts, which one would assume means it is less likely to suffer ‘mechanical failure’ than moving parts. Enquiries to the Motoring Ombudsman reveals that VW is not a member of this organisation, however they suggest a call to Citizen’s Advice. CAB are told about this whole issue, and they suggest that we have a case under the 1982 Act. Their advice is to make sure [Van Centre] are given the chance to resolve the issue first of all, so we ask GP to send us in writing their best offer to resolve this issue….
October 27th
- Email received from GP. It is an ‘estimate’ for £1,721.26. This is approximately £600 more than the originally quoted cost of repair, and approximately £700 more than the original quote with 10% goodwill discount applied. This disappointing figure from GP is unfortunately reinforcing our belief that he is being deliberately obtuse and has no interest in dealing with us sensibly. I immediately look for and contact UKCV customer service and explain the situation. The rep puts me on hold, speaks to [Van Centre], comes back to me to say that my case had been ‘closed’ at [Van Centre] and that they’d need to open a new case and that my case will be looked at by the reps ‘managers’ who will make a decision within a couple of working days. Question: Who closed our ‘case’ at [Van Centre] and why?
October 31st
- Call from VWCV customer service rep. (Note: did not get her name, but I believe she was the same rep that I spoke to later in the week (see below), whose name was ‘M’ – see entry below for November 2nd). She says that the case has been looked at, but with “all things considered” (which she said included talking to [Van centre] to ascertain that “there is no known reason why the part should have failed, and that with any mechanical part, failures do happen”, and “a 2 year warranty is just for peace of mind” and that no manufacturer is under and legal obligation to provide a warranty), they will not be offering anything more than the 20% goodwill gesture discount the Van Centre has already offered. I inform her that we have not yet been offered a 20% discount and that I had in fact received an estimate for approximately £1,700 (and added that our interpretation of such an offer is that GP is being deliberately obtuse and is not interested in helping us). She reiterated that “20%” is what had been agreed with the Van Centre – so somebody at the Van Centre has been telling VWCV one thing, but actually doing/saying another with the customer. She apologised, and said that she will get the van centre to send over the costings with 20% discount applied within a few days. I explain to her that we were quoted on the 2nd October for approximately £1,100 (which is in keeping with the cost of the previous repair), and that I would therefore be expecting to see their best offer is at the very least a quote for the approximate value of £1,100 minus a 20% discount, although reiterated that we believe we should be receiving a free repair under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982.
November 2nd
- Phone call from ‘M’ from VWCV. She confirms that costings have been supplied by [Van centre] and that I should receive an email in the next couple of days confirming the quote with 20% discount applied. She added a comment along the lines of “They/he said that you’ve already been sent the original quote, so you should have that in your emails.” – this particular choice of words led me to say, “As I said to you on the phone the other day, I have received an estimate for approximately £1,700, but this was £600 more than the original quote, and £700 more than the original quote with 10% discount. Reading between the lines a little, it sounds to me like I’m about to receive a quote for £1,700 with 20% discount applied, which still makes the quote more than the original £1,100”. She told me again that the department she’s in does not get directly involved in costings that the van centres some up with, and that if we had questions about the costings we should speak to GP directly to ask why the prices seems to have gone up from the quoted price on the 2nd October. She also added that if I have a problem with GP’s conduct that I can contact the ‘Head of Business’ at the van centre, ‘DN’.
- November 2nd, 9pm-11pm – this document is typed up.
Week beginning 6th November
- Email from GP at [Van centre] has arrived – it’s a quote for more than £1400, which INCLUDES the 20% discount. This is still £300 more than the original quoted price, let alone 10% or 20% off that.
o Not pleased. Treatment from GP is appalling.
12th November
- Adjustments made to this document to remove identifying names and confirm that the ‘final offer’ received from GP at [Van Centre] is £300 more than the original quote, and over £400 more than the expected offer.
0
Comments
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Got bored into the 2nd paragraph.
Try without the waffle and non relevant facts.
The fact your father is stranded is irrelevent, is he really stranded? Because im sure a local taxi firm will have wheelchair accessible vehicles. Is the vehicle yours or his?
The fact the repair lasted 2 years and 23,000 miles makes me wonder how they knew it would fail soon after?Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...0 -
Very long thread... I got confused a little, Who is GP? Sounds like he went to the doctors, Was he/she ignorant to him due to stress(I had to stop reading as the use of GP is used far to often)
Is your post a copy and paste from somewhere as the date format is swapped from American to UK format all over the place(should be day then month). Very confusing as I had to go back to a previous paragraph to check the date over and over again.
As I stopped reading up to the use of General Practitioner, I understand a part failed within 2 years, What warranty did VW give to you upon the date the 1st replacement was fitted. What oil cooler is used(one that fits onto the block and oil filter, or one that is air cooled that looks like an intercooler/radiator)?
Was there a reason to use a dealership workshop rather than a local garage? The parts used would likely have been genuine and you'd have paid a lot less in labour. I saw you mentioned you was charged over £400 in labour alone.... Thats likely just shy of a whole days work for a 'technician'. It shouldn't be to hard or time consuming job to change something so simple. Do you have an itemised breakdown of what was done?
Who is 'V'? And why hide the company name? [Van Centre]
Are you confident to drop oil yourself? If so, drive the van up onto ramps(or one wheel on a kerb) and undo the sump plug and drop the oil yourself and see if any comes out(when dipstick is reading 'empty') Do you have and record on an oil pump change?0 -
Also gave up reading - stick to the relevant facts.0
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Sorry OP , I also gave up, its way to long0
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Very long thread... I got confused a little, Who is GP? Sounds like he went to the doctors, Was he/she ignorant to him due to stress(I had to stop reading as the use of GP is used far to often)
Is your post a copy and paste from somewhere as the date format is swapped from American to UK format all over the place(should be day then month). Very confusing as I had to go back to a previous paragraph to check the date over and over again.
As I stopped reading up to the use of General Practitioner, I understand a part failed within 2 years, What warranty did VW give to you upon the date the 1st replacement was fitted. What oil cooler is used(one that fits onto the block and oil filter, or one that is air cooled that looks like an intercooler/radiator)?
Was there a reason to use a dealership workshop rather than a local garage? The parts used would likely have been genuine and you'd have paid a lot less in labour. I saw you mentioned you was charged over £400 in labour alone.... Thats likely just shy of a whole days work for a 'technician'. It shouldn't be to hard or time consuming job to change something so simple. Do you have an itemised breakdown of what was done?
Who is 'V'? And why hide the company name? [Van Centre]
Are you confident to drop oil yourself? If so, drive the van up onto ramps(or one wheel on a kerb) and undo the sump plug and drop the oil yourself and see if any comes out(when dipstick is reading 'empty') Do you have and record on an oil pump change?
Although the post is to long and I did give up, it was quite clear to me who GP was and I understand why the Op wouldnt want to name the company, yet0 -
Tjake the vehicle to an independent garage0
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Yawn.......0
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Get a second opinion from a local none dealership garage rather than drag this Orwellian saga out any further.0
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If there is now an issue with the engine that has caused the replacement oil cooler to fail what's to say that issue was there 2 years ago?
I would echo the previous post suggesting you take the car to an independent specialist to get fixed.
Is it just the oil cooler being replaced? Sounds a lot of cash for a straightforward part.0 -
That post ran longer than Dallas....................0
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