Bus didn't turn up on way to sign on and missed appointment and have been sanctioned

hettyGreek

On UC, missed the anointment as bus didn't show up for that hour and by the time I got in there the centre was closed. Let them know with an entry in my journal before the meeting and phoned up the next day to re arrange. First time ever missing an appointment.

Is this standard?

Alice_Holt

You can appeal the sanction.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/sanctions/if-youve-been-sanctioned/

FBaby

Did you bother to contact the bus company, explained the situation and ask them to confirm that the bus didn't show up. Otherwise, how is the JCA to know you are not making this up as a excuse?

trigger_fish

OP

If you've never missed an appointment before and they sanction you for that, then that's shows their true intent-ie, to get you off it by fair means or foul, usually foul.

As Fbaby says you could try the bus company for confirmation that the bus never came but I can't see it myself.

Otherwise its the appeal route but what can you bring to the table.

speedfreek1000

FBaby wrote: »

Did you bother to contact the bus company, explained the situation and ask them to confirm that the bus didn't show up. Otherwise, how is the JCA to know you are not making this up as a excuse?

Whilst the DWP might not change their mind Tribunal Panels use something called common sense.

OP the argument you have to put forward is the same one use for missing an appointment due to post not arriving.

Either;

1, I have never missed an appointment before so not turning up therefore is out of character. Given the 'benefit of the Doubt' my reason being that my bus didn't arrive at your discretion should be accepted as truthful and thus good cause.

or

2, There are known issues with buses not arriving on my route. Therefore the bus not arriving was outside of my control and given the 'benefit of the Doubt' my reason being that my bus didn't arrive at your discretion should be accepted as truthful and thus good cause.

You could even use a combination of the 2.

They're basically the same argument framed from different stand points. 1, is easier to argue than 2 as with 2 you need to show a history of this happening. You could try and get some stats on how many buses in your area get cancelled or miss stops but that will take time (might be useful for an Appeal if you demonstrate that you have tried to get that information but it's not essential)

Request a Mandatory Reconsideration and expect to take this all the way to a Formal Appeal. Whilst you stand zero chance of a DWP Decision Maker (you might get lucky) changing their minds! You actually stand quite a good chance of an Appeal Tribunal accepting that you have 'good cause' so it's well worth trying. It may take some time but it's money back in your pocket if you win!

How to request a Mandatory Reconsideration and follow that up with a Formal Appeal https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit/How-do-I-challenge-a-Universal-Credit-decision

annandale

Why would someone stand for an hour waiting for a bus knowing that they'd get a sanction if they were late? As for contacting the bus company to confirm that it didn't turn up, no way would my local bus company provide someone with confirmation that a bus didn't show.

They probably wouldn't even know because buses run out of individual depots.

I waited an hour the other night because my bus didn't show. It's a terribly unreliable service.

This board is supported to be for support. Not to suggest that someone is making something up.

Yes you can be sanctioned for missing a first appointment.

annandale

I'm on universal credit. Not once in 8 months have I been seen on time by my advisor. 15-20 mins late every time. But if I turned up two mins late I'd be sanctioned.

I was once sent home because someone got my appointment time wrong and said I was wrong at the time I turned up. I wasn't.

Before people start nipping at people on benefits and accuse them of making things up, please realise that some people live in areas where buses are terribly unreliable.

I live in a medium sized town. My mum lives two miles from me and her bus service is frequent and reliable.

Served by the same bus company. Mine is the opposite.

You get little enough on uc as it is. Why lie about something like this knowing you'll be sanctioned.

As for anyone who thinks you wouldn't get a sanction for missing an appointment and that this person is being singled out. Wrong.

FBaby

Besides the 'this is the first time in 6 months that I've been late, so unlikely to be lying, there are many things you could have done/could do now to show that you are not lying:

- Prove that the bus you needed to take only comes once an hour as opposed to every 10 minutes and that as the appointment was at 4pm (not at 2pm), you were going to be late.

- Show evidence that when it became obvious you were not going to make it on time, you attempted to give them a call (surely you did this, unless you've already told them that you don't have a mobile phone).

- You've emailed the bus company to ask them why the bus never showed up. Even if they don't respond because they don't know, that would show some probability that it did happen, and the company might get back to you especially if other people have complained. They would want to know what has happened to the bus/driver!

- Or maybe you could have left a phone message or even better a note through the door to say that you'd been there, but arrived too late because of the bus. Why did you wait until the next day?

IAmWales

As for contacting the bus company to confirm that it didn't turn up, no way would my local bus company provide someone with confirmation that a bus didn't show.

Have you ever asked?

TfL publishes delays on their website. The two local bus and tram providers post any cancellations on Facebook. Is there a reason why yours is particularly difficult?

GothicStirling

Everyone carries a phone these days, when the bus was late could you have not called the JC to warn them you would be late?

mro

FBaby wrote: »

Did you bother to contact the bus company, explained the situation and ask them to confirm that the bus didn't show up. Otherwise, how is the JCA to know you are not making this up as a excuse?

FBaby wrote: »

Besides the 'this is the first time in 6 months that I've been late, so unlikely to be lying, there are many things you could have done/could do now to show that you are not lying:

- Prove that the bus you needed to take only comes once an hour as opposed to every 10 minutes and that as the appointment was at 4pm (not at 2pm), you were going to be late.

- Show evidence that when it became obvious you were not going to make it on time, you attempted to give them a call (surely you did this, unless you've already told them that you don't have a mobile phone).

- You've emailed the bus company to ask them why the bus never showed up. Even if they don't respond because they don't know, that would show some probability that it did happen, and the company might get back to you especially if other people have complained. They would want to know what has happened to the bus/driver!

- Or maybe you could have left a phone message or even better a note through the door to say that you'd been there, but arrived too late because of the bus. Why did you wait until the next day?

Don't be silly, there is no proof of bus times & bus journeys, bus companies are not interested, maybe for a police investigation, certainly not for member of public.