Economy 7 - Advice please

EachPenny

[Deleted User] wrote:

You've got to remember that the day/normal rate on E7 is about 3 times the night/low rate, so on balance a standard rate would be fine, especially with gas heating, which no doubt heats the water as well.

Probable, but by no means certain. Hence the question in post #2, and the lack of a firm yes/no response on my part until the OP confirms.

I'm not having a go at you in particular, but there is a tendency on this board to go with E7 (with no storage heaters) = 'Bad' regardless of what the poster is actually using. The first question should always be "what does your meter/bills say?" rather than "do you have storage heaters?".

It should be a case of facts (consumption data) above opinions.

A friend of mine wisely switched to E7 during the summer even though they have no storage heaters and no immersion heater. They are currently saving £5 per month. Not enough to buy a round of drinks, but enough to make it worth doing. :beer:

fatbelly

I have economy 7 and oil-fired central heating. I definitely benefit from having Economy 7 (which for me is 1 - 8 a.m)

I run dehumidifiers (which also serve as clothes dryers), washing machine and dishwasher at night - and use an instant electric shower plus all the breakfasting before 8.

As I am out at work during the day (and usually away at weekends) I still use 53% of my electricity through economy 7, even though the storage heaters were removed a few years back

I am probably a bit unusual as my weekday meals are microwaved so I don't really use the electric cooker much either. However, because it's clearly worth many of us keeping E7 despite not having storage heaters, you can't really generalise about it. All you can say is to analyse your use and decide whether to keep or switch your E7 meter based on objective figures.

House_Martin

storage heaters are pants as a form of heating. They are just ok if there is no option
relying on heating up a block of bricks then hoping it does nt run out is nt my idea of an efficient heating system.Someone once told me that they were cooling down at 3 pm on really cold days
Get a really cold winter and from what I m told they will start to go cold by the start of the evening.Thats hopeless !
My 8 rads throughout the house heat every room up as hot as I want for 24 hrs a day very economically .Gas kwh s are always much cheaper than electric kwhs.
Electricity prices have been rising faster than gas and the quote that Footyguy posted is nt available now march 2016, at least it was nt in my area. I checked a few days ago and Iresa had dropped way down the list, Eons latest tariffs were beating them.
Most people I see who have replaced storage heating have either got a meter replacement or they get billed single tariff on the same meter.
I only advise someone to stick to their eco7 meter if they have GCH if the analogue timer switch is way off beam, as most of them are and they are able to take advantage of half price electric at a convenient hour, not in the dead of night.
Most people lead a busy life and the last thing they want to do is mess about using washing machines and dryers at 1 am in the morning making a racket.
We have many retired folk on here giving good advice but then they have the spare time to make the most of the cheap rate period.
Get rid of eco 7 meter, join the Cheap Energy Club and grab the best electric and gas deals once a year and be done with it
. Please get smart meters installed , they will take care of accurate readings year after year with no fuss.

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I have had E7 at the last three houses but never had storage heaters.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I currently use 24% at night and the E7 quotes are slightly cheaper than the non E7.[/FONT]

Hama4075

Thank you very much for all the replies.

I'm in the South East of England.

Heating, hot water, cooking and shower are all gas heated. The things I can think of that I use electricity for are dehumidifier (partly during peak hours, when I'm cooking or showering), washing machine, lights, fridge, kettle, hairdryer and charging things. I don't have an electric dryer or a dishwasher.

At night I sometimes have a dehumidifier for drying laundry and there's a security light that goes off when foxes go past. But two hours of those are going to be peak rate anyway due to the 2 hour peak rate period in middle of the Economy 7 time.

I've only been in the house for about 3 months so it's not long enough to know annual usage here, but I've looked at the ratio of night time to day usage so far and the night time is about 15%. That's given that I'm artificially using things at night (washing machine and recharging devices on timer) which I find really inconvenient and would rather not do.

I've used my previous annual usage (where I lived before) applying the 15% ratio to get some quotes for Economy 7 and the overall total for a single rate. I used MSE's Cheap Energy Club calculator and also looked around elsewhere.

As I said in my first post, I'm considering Bulb or one of the other providers with a high proportion of renewable energy. (100% renewable electricity and 5% plus biomethane gas.) There will be other providers who have cheaper tariffs but this is important to me.

I know Bulb has the spam reputation thing, but it seems that this is simply them promoting word of mouth marketing - which I'm not against. And it's not hard to find something negative about any energy company.

Bulb is the one that came up in the MSE best buys and there was only about £12 difference between Economy 7 or single rate. However, looking at and contacting the other renewable energy providers the difference is bigger. For example Ecotricity, which I liked as a company, have a day rate of £20.74 with a night rate of £7.44.

It seems that in general for my usage pattern a low night percentage makes Economy 7 more expensive so I wondered if a meter change was something to consider at this point, either before I switch or as part of the deal.

Thanks for the information. I hope I answered all the queries! I will definitely try monitoring my meter to see whether energy use is being clocked as day time or night time - I never thought of that.

EachPenny

Hama4075 wrote: »

I've only been in the house for about 3 months so it's not long enough to know annual usage here, but I've looked at the ratio of night time to day usage so far and the night time is about 15%. That's given that I'm artificially using things at night (washing machine and recharging devices on timer) which I find really inconvenient and would rather not do.

I've used my previous annual usage (where I lived before) applying the 15% ratio to get some quotes for Economy 7 and the overall total for a single rate. I used MSE's Cheap Energy Club calculator and also looked around elsewhere.

15% does sound very low, and you are pretty unlikely to find an E7 tariff that works out the cheapest for that consumption ratio. I'd be a bit suspicious, especially as you should be getting some cheap use late evening/early morning (unless you sleep for a very long time;)), so I really would investigate to make sure you have the right hours.

Hama4075 wrote: »

It seems that in general for my usage pattern a low night percentage makes Economy 7 more expensive so I wondered if a meter change was something to consider at this point, either before I switch or as part of the deal.

If you are going to change to single rate then you need to factor in the cost (if any) of getting the meters changed. Some suppliers do it for free, or will combine readings to avoid the need to change.

If a supplier works out £30 cheaper, but will charge £50 to swap meters then obviously that may not be your best option.

Hama4075

EachPenny wrote: »

15% does sound very low, and you are pretty unlikely to find an E7 tariff that works out the cheapest for that consumption ratio. I'd be a bit suspicious, especially as you should be getting some cheap use late evening/early morning (unless you sleep for a very long time;)), so I really would investigate to make sure you have the right hours.


If you are going to change to single rate then you need to factor in the cost (if any) of getting the meters changed. Some suppliers do it for free, or will combine readings to avoid the need to change.

If a supplier works out £30 cheaper, but will charge £50 to swap meters then obviously that may not be your best option.

I've been thinking that it will be a higher percentage in winter than it has been over the summer, but still not that much. I go to bed about 10pm and get up quite early, but it's only recently that I've needed to put lights on when I get up. I've been drying washing outside so haven't needed to run the dehumidifier overnight much, but that will change.

It's hard to think what else I would normally use electricity for during E7 hours apart from the fridge, security light and boiling the kettle when I get up. Running the washing machine during the night is still only 60 minutes twice a week. I don't leave anything on standby if I can switch it off altogether. On the other hand, I'm home a lot during the daytime tariff and have hobbies that use electricity (sculpture - power tools, DIY - ditto, baking - I forgot, the oven is electric). I think even during winter I'm likely to have to have a low ratio of night time usage.

I'm hoping to live here a while, so I'm looking at whether it's worth it over more than a year. Thanks to the advice in this thread I'm definitely going to ask suppliers about a meter change or reading the existing one for a single rate.

WhoIsThat

Oh look! Another new user who has joined MSE to declare they plan to:

a) Join Bulb energy company
b) Do away with Economy 7, despite advice by experienced members who advise how to ensure that is the right thing to do.

Instead, the new user appears to have already decided, based on assumptions only, and arguably resisting advice to maximise their usage of cheap rate electricity.

Therefore, it would not surprise me that the new user who has joined MoneySavingExpert.com would also not interested to know that they will pay

a) at least 6.6% more for their unit price
b) 35% more for their daily standing charge

- if they go with their supplier of choice, on the single rate tariff they appear to have already decided to take. Note that their supplier of choice also only offer variable tariffs, so the price could change at any time.

Obviously, the alternative name of Spam Energy appears to have been well coined.

Raxiel

footyguy wrote: »

c) Vey few suppliers allow you to obtain a single rate tariff when on a dual rate meter (but there are a limited few that do)
I don't think Iresa do, so the cost of having the meter changed (at least £50 where charged, often more) may make you decide to stay on E7 unless you are sure you don't want it, you are sure you won't want it for some time, and also of course, you plan to remain at your current address for those years to come.

Actually, Iresa are quite happy to combine the two readings on an E7 meter for a single rate tariff.

It's not universal, but it's not that rare. E.ON also do this, and I believe Bulb do too (although I think you have to sign up with E7 and then contact them to change it).

The advantage of keeping a dual rate meter is that even if it's not economical for your usage now, you can still see what your day/night split is, and switch if the proportion ever swings back in favour of E7

Will_at_Bulb

Raxiel wrote: »

It's not universal, but it's not that rare. E.ON also do this, and I believe Bulb do too (although I think you have to sign up with E7 and then contact them to change it).

Just to confirm, we do indeed.

On a related note, we're in the process of changing our T&Cs to prevent member from sharing their referral links in some places, so hopefully you'll see fewer people sharing their Bulb referral links inappropriately in future.