Economy 7 - Advice please

Hama4075

I've recently bought a house with an Economy 7 meter. The current provider is EDF but I want to switch. I'm wondering if I can ditch the Economy 7 because I have gas central heating and don't use anything like 40% of electricity at night even if I programme the washing machine for the small hours.

What I'm wondering is:

a) I'm confused about the hours when Economy 7 applies. EDF say 22:30 to 0:30 and 02:30 to 07:30. So if I want to run something overnight to get the benefit of Economy 7, I have to factor in a 2 hour break from 00:30 to 2:30 when it's peak rate tariff again? Or have I misunderstood?

b) Does my meter (which looks far from smart) know when the clocks change? Does it even know the correct time? I can't see a time indicator although it seems to think the date today is 17 May 2017.

c) Can I get a non-Ecomony 7 tariff without actually changing the meter?

d) If I have to change the meter, does that mean the whole meter is replaced or that something is reset? How likely is it that a provider will pay for the change? Will I have to pay myself? I'm looking at switching to Bulb or one of the other providers with a high percentage of renewable energy.

Any advice would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

EachPenny

Have you checked your consumption since you moved in - what are the readings now compared to the moving date?

How is your water heated?

In some areas the 7 hours are split. Normally the hours are fixed on GMT and don't change with the clocks. You are correct that there are two hours charged at peak rate between 00:30 and 02:30, so I would time my appliances to come on at say 03:00. But that assumes the clock is showing the correct time, which by the sounds of it it isn't.

Before switching away from E7 you might want to find out exactly what times of day you are getting off-peak electricity

footyguy

Hama4075 wrote: »

I've recently bought a house with an Economy 7 meter. The current provider is EDF but I want to switch. I'm wondering if I can ditch the Economy 7 because I have gas central heating and don't use anything like 40% of electricity at night even if I programme the washing machine for the small hours.

What I'm wondering is:

a) I'm confused about the hours when Economy 7 applies. EDF say 22:30 to 0:30 and 02:30 to 07:30. So if I want to run something overnight to get the benefit of Economy 7, I have to factor in a 2 hour break from 00:30 to 2:30 when it's peak rate tariff again? Or have I misunderstood?

b) Does my meter (which looks far from smart) know when the clocks change? Does it even know the correct time? I can't see a time indicator although it seems to think the date today is 17 May 2017.

c) Can I get a non-Ecomony 7 tariff without actually changing the meter?

d) If I have to change the meter, does that mean the whole meter is replaced or that something is reset? How likely is it that a provider will pay for the change? Will I have to pay myself? I'm looking at switching to Bulb or one of the other providers with a high percentage of renewable energy.

Any advice would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

Why do you want to ditch E7?
Iresa is the cheapest electricity supplier (based on average usage) according to MSE and in most regions, daytime unit cost is lower than single rate, plus of course you also get 7 hours of cheap rate electricity :money:
(at least that was true with Flex 4 - I've not checked their latest Flex 5 tariff they have migrated to)
Standing charges are a few pence higher per day with their E7 though.

So I suggest you do some comparisons via a CPW to ensure getting rid of E7 will actually save you any money.

However, according to what EDF have told you, you are perhaps in one of the more expensive E7 areas.
E7 normally offers 7 staright hours of electricity per day, but I believe one region at least (South Scotland)?) it is split up as EDF have indicated to you.
However the excat times will depend - the only sure way is to check your meter to find out the exact switching times.

b) Your meter may be telematic, or may purely be based on a mechanical system.
Either way, it does not normally affect the times you get cheap rate electricity.
e.g. if you get it midnight - 7am GMT, then you would get it 1am-8am BST

I don't think you need to worry about the date on the clock
(Ours has the correct date, but the wrong time. This means we actually get our cheap rate about 9pm - 4am. Even more odly, the clock adjusts for GMT/BST switchover, but does not correct itself for actual time. As I said, the change in clock time does not actually affect when the cheap rate starts & stops)

c) Vey few suppliers allow you to obtain a single rate tariff when on a dual rate meter (but there are a limited few that do)
I don't think Iresa do, so the cost of having the meter changed (at least £50 where charged, often more) may make you decide to stay on E7 unless you are sure you don't want it, you are sure you won't want it for some time, and also of course, you plan to remain at your current address for those years to come.

d) If you have the meter change, yes the whole meter will be changed.

As regards you thinking of switching to Bulb Energy (already nicknamed by at least one MSEer here on MSE as Spam Energy), all I can urge you to do once more is to consult a comparison site to find the best deal for you.

Until you have looked at the comparison site extensively, especially if you are also considering whether to stay with E7 or not, how can you possibly have already chosen the supplier??? :huh:

House_Martin

Good advice from Eachpenny but seeing as how you have gas central heating I would get rid of the Eco 7 meter for good and get EDF to fit a standard electric meter with one rate for the 24 hrs.Once EDF have changed the meter you would be free to compare the whole market and not worry about the suppliers messing up the billing with Eco 7 times.
All suppliers are now obliged to offer a single rate tariff for Eco 7 users but I personally would nt like to give them opportunity to mess the billing up which is what many do now with a multi rate meter.
Dump the meter, even if there is a cost involved to yourself.Its worth it to be free of your meter which is meant for night storage heating.
Footyguy has a point in favour if you have an aberrant timerswitch and its doing you a big favour if you can get half price electricity in a convenient time to hammer it a bit but the meter will be changed at sometime and that will be the end of that.
Scottish Power are the only supplier who want us ( I m a meter reader ) to check the timers on meters and will change the meter if its more than 2 hours adrift. All the others are nt bothered even if its 12 hours out, as many are.

footyguy

House_Martin wrote: »

Good advice from Eachpenny but seeing as how you have gas central heating I would get rid of the Eco 7 meter for good and get EDF to fit a standard electric meter with one rate for the 24 hrs.Once EDF have changed the meter you would free to compare the whole market and not worry about the suppliers messing up the billing with Eco 7 times.
All suppliers are now obliged to offer a single rate tariff for Eco 7 users but I personally would nt like to give them opportunity to mess the billing up which is what many do now with a multi rate meter.
Dump the meter, even if there is a cost involved to yourself.Its worth it to be free of your meter which is meant for night storage heating

We have Economy 7 and gas central heating. Have had this set up for many yaers
In almost everyone of those years we have benefitted from being on E7
We use about 25% cheap rate electricity, and we don't try very hard.
7/24 is more like 29%

We are with Iresa in one of the many regions that does offer cheaper day rates than their single rate alternative. We atre a low user, and yet even the slightly higher standing charge that applies, still means we save with E7

Here are the Iresa Flex4 rates
http://www.iresa.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/IresaEnergyTariffs.pdf

As I mentioned, This tariff is not available to new custoimers who will now have Flex5.
I've not checked every region, but think Flex 5 is about 5% extra on each unit rate, and no change to standing charge

As for "All suppliers are now obliged to offer a single rate tariff for Eco 7 users", yes they do, but a meter change may be required (for which a charge may apply)
I think you are potentially confusing the rights of those with legacy metering/tariffs.

Edit: I see from another post that you are in the Yorkshire region
Here are the Iresa Flex 5 rates for that supply region (all exclude VAT at 5%)
Single rate:
Unit Rate: 11.840 p/kWh
Standing Charge: 13.430p/day

E7:
Economy 7 Day rate 11.510 p/kWh
Economy 7 Night rate 8.090 p/kWh
Standing Charge: 21.470p/day

So unless you are an extremely low user, where the additional standing charge cost may come into significant play, then I fail to see how whatever usage you have, single rate can be chaeper?
If you are such a low user, then a zero standing charge tariff may be more beneficial.

The only way to be sure is to consult a comparison site that looks at the whole of market using your own anticipated annuam consumption figures.

It may be that you happen to just lie in a 'sweet spot' where you benefit from being on a single rate, but to assume the same applies to everyone who has gas central haeting would be entirely wrong.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

whoever decided to get the gas installed should've got rid of the E7 meter then.

As already said change to a single rate meter,

It's not as if you're going to save £100's a year using the E7 cheap rate for washing etc.

EachPenny

House_Martin wrote: »

Dump the meter, even if there is a cost involved to yourself.Its worth it to be free of your meter which is meant for night storage heating.

So pay to 'dump the meter' even if it is saving you money? Not very MSE is it?

E7 is not just "meant for night storage heating" - that is a myth which keeps on coming up. ToU tariffs are the future, thanks to smart meters, so rather than 'dumping' a tariff which might be the cheapest, the best advice for the OP is to work out whether E7 can be the cheapest option. Like footyguy I have E7 and gas central heating and over the year E7 works out significantly cheaper for me. If I had the OP's (correct) switching times (i.e. 2 hours from 22:30 to 00:30) then I'd be laughing all the way to the bank with the savings I'd be making.

House_Martin wrote: »

Footyguy has a point in favour if you have an aberrant timerswitch and its doing you a big favour if you can get half price electricity in a convenient time to hammer it a bit but the meter will be changed at sometime and that will be the end of that.

So make the decision based on actual consumption now, and then review that decision when the meter is changed. Don't lumber yourself with additional costs now just because of something which might happen at some point in the future.

[Deleted User] wrote:

whoever decided to get the gas installed should've got rid of the E7 meter then.

Why? If it saves money then it saves money. We need to hear more from the OP about their set up, especially if their hot water is heated by immersion and not gas (which may be one reason why E7 was installed to start with).

[Deleted User] wrote:

It's not as if you're going to save £100's a year using the E7 cheap rate for washing etc.

Probably not, but if it is saving £10 a year would most people say no to that? Especially if there is the additional cost involved in getting the meter changed to a single rate.

[Deleted User]

EachPenny wrote: »

Why? If it saves money then it saves money. We need to hear more from the OP about their set up, especially if their hot water is heated by immersion and not gas (which may be one reason why E7 was installed to start with).

I was presuming that E7 storage heating was the original set up.

Nobody wise would get E7 after installing gas.

Probably not, but if it is saving £10 a year would most people say no to that? Especially if there is the additional cost involved in getting the meter changed to a single rate.

Save £10 a year, jings 3p a day, I've found more than that on the street, £10 doesn't buy 3 pints nowadays.QUOTE]

EachPenny

[Deleted User] wrote:

Nobody wise would get E7 after installing gas.

I think footyguy and I would disagree with you there.

[Deleted User] wrote:

Save £10 a year, jings 3p a day, I've found more than that on the street, £10 doesn't buy 3 pints nowadays.

And you call yourself 'frugal'?

[Deleted User]

Hi,

oh jings I'm frugal.

You've got to remember that the day/normal rate on E7 is about 3 times the night/low rate, so on balance a standard rate would be fine, especially with gas heating, which no doubt heats the water as well.

[Deleted User]

@ frugalmacdugal
Back in the 90's, my new build house had gas central heating and E7 electricity meter installed by the builders. It was common then to do that.