Smart Meters

badmemory

Your health is at far more risk from the stress of the smart bit being turned off because you've changed supplier & need a new one fitted & hypothermia from the battery in the gas smart going suddenly flat in midwinter & leaving you without heating until they can be bothered to come & sort it.

thorganby

Nick_C wrote: »

How does the cell know that the mobile has moved if it is not transmitting?

Raxiel wrote: »

It's not that it isn't transmitting, just that it transmits very short bursts, occasionally, rather than a constant connection.

If a phone moved out of the range of a particular cell, the network wouldn't be able to find it until it made it's next ping (that would be picked up by a different cell). It's unusual, but it can happen.

When a mobile moves, it's receiver is continuously monitoring signal strength and signal quality from several adjacent cells to ensure that it is attached to the best cell available for that location. The cell handover process is initiated when an adjacent cell provides better signal strength/quality than the current cell. The handset then identifies itself to this better cell by transmitting on the control channel as it did when it was initially switched on. The mobile does not transmit continuously as this is not necessary for the network to know which cell the mobile is located in and maintain this information in it's database. The network always knows where all attached mobiles are located on it's network.

matelodave

OK I'll acknowledge that it isn't continuous, but it's pinging the base station every so often whilst it's in your pocket close to bits of you that you'd probably not want irradiated - certainly a lot closer than any smart meter.

Likewise whn in use the phone id held right up against your head (unless you are one of these who walks down the street shouting at it) which again is a lot closer than most smart meters.

However, if you believe all the guff about how dangerous smart meters are, your brain has already been fried and so a smart meter wont make much difference to your health and may actually help you get on with life

Nick_C

thorganby wrote: »

When a mobile moves, it's receiver is continuously monitoring signal strength and signal quality from several adjacent cells to ensure that it is attached to the best cell available for that location. The cell handover process is initiated when an adjacent cell provides better signal strength/quality than the current cell. The handset then identifies itself to this better cell by transmitting on the control channel as it did when it was initially switched on. The mobile does not transmit continuously as this is not necessary for the network to know which cell the mobile is located in and maintain this information in it's database. The network always knows where all attached mobiles are located on it's network.

Among all the rubbish posted on here there is often some interesting information. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

zeupater

Raxiel wrote: »

It's not that it isn't transmitting, just that it transmits very short bursts, occasionally, rather than a constant connection.

If a phone moved out of the range of a particular cell, the network wouldn't be able to find it until it made it's next ping (that would be picked up by a different cell). It's unusual, but it can happen.

Hi

The issue related to smart-meters is that it (not registering with a cell) can & does happen ... my mobile phone is right next to me & turned on & it currently has no network - there are a couple of areas in the house where you could get a very weak signal on rare occasions, but that's about it.

So, in our case ...
.. we're not only in the proportion of the households where smart-meter communication issues would cause problems and render their installation irrelevant on any automation grounds, ..

.. but also in the percentage of households with access to monitors which provide information which renders the IHD irrelevant, ..

.. additionally in the percentage of households which should have originally been assessed (according to EU directive) as having little potential benefit (on ultra-low usage emission reduction grounds) and therefore classified as being outside the scope for inclusion within this 'special' emission reduction project, thus rendering inclusion in the project irrelevant, ..

.. and finally, through choice based on awareness of project flaws, being in the 20% of households supposedly assessed as having benefit which are allowed to be outside the 2020 target whilst still meeting the project target (80% of assessed).

The issue here is that the smart-meter project as implemented in the UK is flawed - essentially the concept is to meet 2020 emission reduction targets, however through not targetting high users the project is bound to fail and/or have unnecessary & severe cost overrun implications by design ... standard logic would suggest that ranking households by energy usage & targetting smart-meters & other efficiency measures at the highest 20% would deliver 80% of the total savings available for a fraction of the 'special project' cost, leaving the remainder of meters to be replaced within their nominal replacement cycle ... as it is, if the least efficient & highest consumption users are within the allowable 20% within the simplistic installation count KPI measure which the smart-meter project uses, then it could feasibly deliver only 20% of the target whist costing considerably more, handing the industry a 'bow wave' replacement cycle headache which is almost impossible to smooth, therefore we'll be paying for the effects of this 'bright idea' for ever ... well, almost forever - if the industry can possibly get away with it! ...

HTH
Z

Bern64

Do companies receive commission for getting/coercing/forcing a customer to have a smart meter fitted. I am being bombarded by phone calls morning, noon and night almost on a daily basis. All from the same number. I am with Scottish Power. I have spoken to one person so far (usually I am out) and I don't believe they are from Scottish Power as they sounded very aggressive and pretended that I had made an order so they were just phoning to arrange fitting. There was no order made by me. Also it smacked of a scam so I refused to verify my details when asked. They refused to verify my details to me so that I could ascertain if they are genuine or not. In the end there was a large sigh at the end of the phone and they hung up. Still no idea if it was a scam or not!

Nick_C

Although advice to consumers is that smart meters are not compulsory, every energy supplier has targets and an action plan to complete the roll out of smart meters to all domestic users and small businesses by 2020.

I don't know what the penalties for non compliance are.

Edit: to quote from an OFGEM letter of June '17;
"Suppliers are required to take all reasonable steps to roll out smart meters to all domestic
and small business customers by the end of 2020. This will deliver significant benefits to
consumers, such as ending estimated billing and giving consumers greater control over... "

zeupater

Bern64 wrote: »

Do companies receive commission for getting/coercing/forcing a customer to have a smart meter fitted ...

Hi

It seems that the energy sector has been given permission to roll-out smart-meters which cost a few pounds, install those meters within the terms of a 'special project' which is justified on environmental (/energy efficiency) grounds, then allowed to recover the 'few pounds' and installation costs over an extended period, resulting in the equipment costing upwards of £500 on a current cost basis, so much more when inflationary pressures are applied.

Of course, investing 'a few pounds' up front to receive £500+ of additional revenue provides the industry with ample incentive to operate an aggressive sales campaign ... furthermore, the majority of installations are being sub-contracted to 3rd parties (under lucrative 'short-term' agreements), who themselves have a vested interest in encouraging consumers to have the smart-meters installed ...

Of course, there's no need to worry, the extortionate £500+ for the meters is considered reasonable because they're fitted for free, before charging us all £500+ for the privilege on an amortised basis (added to the DD/bill!) ...

The more of us that realise there'll be no direct energy efficiency savings or even cost/benefit in our own circumstances, the less everyone will have to pay for this ridiculous project ... when the cut-off point for the project roll-out has been passed, the energy sector will still need to replace meters as necessary, which we pay for anyway within out current bills, it's just that they'll need to use their own funds, not those allowed to be charged under the umbrella of this 'special project' .... I'm looking forward to that day, but suspect that as the target has little chance of being achieved within the current plan, the sector with convince BEIS to roll-over and extend it's scope!

HTH
Z

zeupater

Nick_C wrote: »

Although advice to consumers is that smart meters are not compulsory, every energy supplier has targets and an action plan to complete the roll out of smart meters to all domestic users and small businesses by 2020.

I don't know what the penalties for non compliance are.

Edit: to quote from an OFGEM letter of June '17; "Suppliers are required to take all reasonable steps to roll out smart meters to all domestic and small business customers by the end of 2020. This will deliver significant benefits to consumers, such as ending estimated billing and giving consumers greater control over... "

Hi

The majority of what I've seen regarding this tends to result in 'reasonable steps' being fulfilled by making a direct offer to the consumer, whether they accept it or not ... other than that, as the industry can't legally 'force' anyone to have a smart-meter the wording is totally meaningless!

Additionally, "will deliver significant benefits to consumers" cannot be true, because it not only can't apply in a significant form to 'all customers' but in many cases the technology provides no direct consumer benefit whatsoever ... the main beneficiary being whoever receives the £12-£15billion of additional revenue that this project generates ....

Brief (/unbiased) project reasoning & history covered here on this blog/site ... <Smart Metering - (1). Introduction: What's it all about ?>

HTH
Z

EachPenny

Bern64 wrote: »

Do companies receive commission for getting/coercing/forcing a customer to have a smart meter fitted. I am being bombarded by phone calls morning, noon and night almost on a daily basis. All from the same number. I am with Scottish Power. I have spoken to one person so far (usually I am out) and I don't believe they are from Scottish Power as they sounded very aggressive and pretended that I had made an order so they were just phoning to arrange fitting. There was no order made by me. Also it smacked of a scam so I refused to verify my details when asked. They refused to verify my details to me so that I could ascertain if they are genuine or not. In the end there was a large sigh at the end of the phone and they hung up. Still no idea if it was a scam or not!

There are two ways of dealing with this:-
1) Make a written complaint to Scottish Power on the basis you have received repeated unwanted calls of a distressing nature from someone claiming to represent them. Explain that the nature of the call led you to believe it was part of a confidence trick (scam) and the person calling was unable to satisfactorily allay your concerns, leaving you feeling vulnerable and concerned. Ask them to confirm in writing whether they, or an agent working on their behalf, has been attempting to contact you in this way. (if possible quote times/dates of call(s) and the number the call came from. State that if it is them or an agent contacting you that you wish them to stop doing so in this way and that you would like compensation for the inconvenience and alarm caused.

Alternatively,
2) The next time the same kind of call happens, ask to be put through to the person's supervisor/line manager. Then ask for the address to write to in order to make a formal written complaint about the way in which these calls have been made. Depending on the response you get, either ask for compensation or else consider actually making the complaint as per (1).

The prospect of having to deal with a complaint and possibly paying out compensation is often sufficient to get companies to modify their behaviour towards you