Smart Meters

carl.waring

Yes. Still no reason not to. Nothing you have posted makes any difference to me.

It is both interesting and telling that you have made no direct response or rebuttal to the previous two posts by dolor and matelodave. I wonder why?

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

The Spy Under The Stairs

Extracts from the VoltAware website:-

Every appliance has its own electrical fingerprint. We see them every time they are used.

Voltaware works by analysing electricity data either from its patented sensor or smart meter data.

The Voltaware algorithm then automatically breaks down individual appliances from the total load, enabling a wide range of home insights.

Voltaware can instantly detect appliance fingerprints without requiring any calibration from you as a user.

Voltaware differentiates between the consumption of the main appliances at home without requiring any user input.

AI is at the core of Voltaware...  Appliance Detection...  Home insights... elderly monitoring... real-time monitoring...  occupancy.

Currently the appliances disaggregated are:

• Air conditioner,
• Dishwasher,
• Electric boiler,
• Electric heating,
• Electric oven,
• Electric shower,
• Electric stove
• Electric vehicle,
• Fridge
• Freezer,
• Tumble dryer
• Washing machine.

Voltaware is using more than 50 electrical features, such as active power, reactive power, harmonics, transient, etc.

Still want a smart meter?

Yet again, you choose to throw in the fear factor in your unrelenting tirade against smart meters. UK smart meters are set up to provide suppliers with 30 minute readings. This does not provide a level of granularity that would allow any supplier to determine which appliances are switched on in a domestic property. That said, even I would accept that anyone looking at my 30 minute usage between 0030 and 0430 might be able to guess when my EV was charging. ‘WAS’ because the 30 minute usage information is not real-time. It has to be retrieved from the meter which my supplier does once a day.

VoltAware and similar devices work with smart meters that provide suppliers with a reading every 10 seconds - UK smart meters are not able to provide suppliers with this level of information. The HAN though does provide the IHD with 10 second electricity updates. The end user has complete control of all HAN information. Firstly, the HAN is subject to a high level of Zigbee Security. Secondly, the end user can just put the IHD in a drawer and ignore it and no one else can access that data. Thirdly, some IHDs do come with a CAD function ( such as the Chameleon IHD 6 and the Hildebrand IHD/CAD) . The latter, for example, can only be connected to a specified HAN with the end user’s permission and then only by a Registered DCC User.

To use any CAD function, the end user has to connect the IHD/CAD to a home network and then sign up for third-party access to Apps such as VoltAware, SmartThings or Bright App. The key thing here is the end user has complete control of the data that is being reported back. By far the easiest way of getting this data is via the VoltAware CT clamp which Octopus is currently discounting to its customers. To work, the VoltAware CT clamp does not require a property to have a smart meter. All that is required is a space in the home consumer unit and access to the main cable to fit the clamp. Smappee has had a similar system available in the UK for many years.

As an avid MSEr, I would have thought that even you could recognise that there are some benefits in monitoring how, say, a freezer is performing both in terms of its power requirements and duration. With this information it is possible, for example,  to detect a failing appliance or a failed thermostat in a hot water cylinder. No one is forcing anybody to buy in to this technology. 

matelodave

I was going to discuss the claims given in the Voltaware stuff but came to the conclusion that it's probably as pointless as flogging a dead horse.
This thread is a bit like discusiing religion. If you believe that smart meters are the spawn of the devil or that the earth is flat then nothing will shake your faith and you will only find and read stuff that re-inforces your prejudice or views rather than trying to understand.

victor2

matelodave said:

I was going to discuss the claims given in the Voltaware stuff but came to the conclusion that it's probably as pointless as flogging a dead horse.
This thread is a bit like discusiing religion. If you believe that smart meters are the spawn of the devil or that the earth is flat then nothing will shake your faith and you will only find and read stuff that re-inforces your prejudice or views rather than trying to understand.

Well put! 

niktheguru

Gerry1 said:

The Spy Under The Stairs

Extracts from the VoltAware website:-

Every appliance has its own electrical fingerprint. We see them every time they are used.

Voltaware works by analysing electricity data either from its patented sensor or smart meter data.

The Voltaware algorithm then automatically breaks down individual appliances from the total load, enabling a wide range of home insights.

Voltaware can instantly detect appliance fingerprints without requiring any calibration from you as a user.

Voltaware differentiates between the consumption of the main appliances at home without requiring any user input.

AI is at the core of Voltaware...  Appliance Detection...  Home insights... elderly monitoring... real-time monitoring...  occupancy.

Currently the appliances disaggregated are:

• Air conditioner,
• Dishwasher,
• Electric boiler,
• Electric heating,
• Electric oven,
• Electric shower,
• Electric stove
• Electric vehicle,
• Fridge
• Freezer,
• Tumble dryer
• Washing machine.

Voltaware is using more than 50 electrical features, such as active power, reactive power, harmonics, transient, etc.

Still want a smart meter?

I have to mirror other peoples thoughts on this. I really do not care if somebody wishes to know when i'm having a shower or cooking my dinner. Knowledge of when i'm not at home is very apparent from the lighting and lack of car in the front drive.

There seems to be a bit too much scaremongering going on about smart meters. Just looking at the multitude of threads of people claiming "all you can eat electricity" and "i've been robbed by company x" due to estimated readings is reason enough for a smart meter roll out. 
There is far more "big brother" data gathering going on in everyday life than you'd get from a smart meter. Your phone tracking location and internet history, your computer doing the same, your sky tv knowing exactly what sort of programmes you watch and when, your social media, your targeted ads etc etc. Yet most of us hav satellite/cable, use the internet without hiding behind several vpn and firewalls and use our phones for all sorts of things.

murphydavid

carl.waring said:

as to your other read issue that is something called ‘supplier agreed reads’ and if you’re opening read with your new supplier is incorrect you need to get your previous supplier to discuss it with your new supplier.

Sorry to post off topic but I said 7 months --
You give it a name and it sounds so uncomplicated.
But after my new supplier and my old supplier said they were discussing it for 3 months and used it as an excuse for making matters worse and worse (or some sort of complex procrastination where the emails increase in volume and new stuff is added but nothing practical gets done) they then discussed it through me (send me emails starting with "you need to tell  xxx" ie asking me to forward it to the other party back and forth like a husband and wife who don't speak to each other but use the lodger in a sit com episode) for a further 4 months. So being told for the (must be) hundreds of times what it is called is almost painful.
A complaint and 6 weeks further on and me telling one of them they had 2 more weeks then I was off to the energy ombudsman has brought it to a conclusion. I think.
I have yet to check out 7 months of bills to be sure.
Its only a meter reading (one in an almost predictable sequence). Its not a new quantum physics theory. It cant go 1120; 1135;1142 then drop to 421 then the next reading be 1171. Then being told in all seriousness that (using 421 followed by 1171 in a couple of days as a predictor) you are using and will be using industrial quantities of gas for the next year so we are quadrupling your direct debit is insane behavior. 
At first I thought it was one or two employees but each email had a different signee so it seems to me to be some sort of institutional directive that says ask for more enough times in as complicated a way as possible and they will give up and pay.

carl.waring

Oh yeah. I just mentioned what I know. Actually getting it done is another matter 😁

oldandwizend

niktheguru said:

There is far more "big brother" data gathering going on in everyday life than you'd get from a smart meter. Your phone tracking location and internet history, your computer doing the same, your sky tv knowing exactly what sort of programmes you watch and when, your social media, your targeted ads etc etc. Yet most of us hav satellite/cable, use the internet without hiding behind several vpn and firewalls and use our phones for all sorts of things.

I am not anti smart meter and could not agree more with your sentiment.  However, it does fall down in one major area. All of the “big brother” examples you give are not compulsory and are a consumer choice. At present neither are smart meters but as to the future……

murphydavid

Dolor said

the management of the programme which has been abysmal,

That's what bothers me and why I asked my original question.
I have just been through 7 months of abysmal service regarding meter readings from a company who now wants to change my meter and are capable of disputing any reading it may send them; smart or not.
When I changed to them MSE said they had a good customer relations rating for which reason I did not choose a cheaper company. I'd rather pay more for a peaceful life. I wish.
So as getting a smart meter; on its own; seems to give me a more than 50% chance of bringing agro with it; and the company I am with have proved to me they can be extremely aggravating so another % chance to add to the 50%; and the service ratings do not seem to apply to an "unlucky in energy guy" like me.
At this time I will only change if I'm forced to. 
Oh and it seems they lied to me just the other day.   
I'm not "anti smart meter" but I am "avoid incompetency or worse" and they seem to go hand in hand.
With my recent experience I keep seeing this scenario.
Sparkling smart meter reading 0.00. Old gas meter gone. Gas company says your old meter read 3654 our industry independent judicator says so (similar to what they just did). I know it read 1264 but this time no way to prove it except the photo I took which could be anyone's meter. Much agro ensues.

niktheguru

murphydavid said:

Dolor said

the management of the programme which has been abysmal,

That's what bothers me and why I asked my original question.
I have just been through 7 months of abysmal service regarding meter readings from a company who now wants to change my meter and are capable of disputing any reading it may send them; smart or not.
When I changed to them MSE said they had a good customer relations rating for which reason I did not choose a cheaper company. I'd rather pay more for a peaceful life. I wish.
So as getting a smart meter; on its own; seems to give me a more than 50% chance of bringing agro with it; and the company I am with have proved to me they can be extremely aggravating so another % chance to add to the 50%; and the service ratings do not seem to apply to an "unlucky in energy guy" like me.
At this time I will only change if I'm forced to. 
Oh and it seems they lied to me just the other day.   
I'm not "anti smart meter" but I am "avoid incompetency or worse" and they seem to go hand in hand.
With my recent experience I keep seeing this scenario.
Sparkling smart meter reading 0.00. Old gas meter gone. Gas company says your old meter read 3654 our industry independent judicator says so (similar to what they just did). I know it read 1264 but this time no way to prove it except the photo I took which could be anyone's meter. Much agro ensues.

Which company are you with?
Also, if you took a decent photo of the meter, it will have the serial number of the meter on it. Always take a picture of the whole meter and not just the screen. If taken on your phone you will also have a time and date stamp....so these things are hard to dispute.

Also, surely with smart meters now being smets2, the closing/opening reading dispute should become a distant memory with little need for the "third party" as readings should/will be accurate.