The Edcawber Principle

Karmacat

edinburgher wrote: »

Hi Jen

I never realised how prevalent lurkers were until Mrs E told me that she was a long time Mum5net lurker! :rotfl:

Very prevalent when I posted a link on my diary to the pictures of the condolence flowers that Virgin Rail sent me after I commented about how lovely their staff had been to me, that personal blog post got 140 views in two days, and my diary was the only place I publicised it.

edinburgher wrote: »

Had a long chat with Mrs E last night and find myself a bit deflated. To cut a long story short, she is resolutely digging her heels in as regards personal spends. In fact, she is willing to cut almost everything (including things that I think we would be reckless to cut, like my union dues and car replacement), but not spends "as we are both feeling skint". I'm of the opinion that feeling skint is infinitely better than being homeless, but the argument was left unresolved.

If I add our personal spends and credit card minimums to our expenses, we have -£500/month left over. I can't work with that.

In short, if we use most of our savings, DD's childcare costs shrink in the summer and we cut grocery 20%, home maintenance 33%, car maintenance 100%, electronics 100%, pets 100% and holiday budget 100% (as well as only making minimum repayments), it will take us 8 years to pay off the CCs (assuming no cost BTs remain available) I think that's completely unrealistic and am a bit !!!!ed off.

Scunnered.

Oh drat. And you've gone through all the figures with her? Plus, you can't cut car maintenance 100% if you've still got a car

Keep talking, Ed, keep communicating. Keep listening too. I hope the conversation progresses.

edinburgher

I think we can cut car maintenance a bit (no service or MOT for 3 years), but there is always the odd burst tyre, small part or bottle of screenwash required, even when the big stuff is covered.

The frustration is largely because she refuses to see the elephant in the room (personal spends, it transpires, are our second biggest line item). Even a modest change on her part (make a packed lunch, for example), could save £40/month.

Ps. The mortgage is a far larger elephant, but I am struggling to find an elephant gun in the UK

Greying_Pilgrim

Ed - I don't know you and I don't know MrsE, and whilst I agree with Karma about the need for keeping communication lines open and the conversation turning, is MrsE the sort of person to say no initially, and then go away and have a little think about things?

I realise that for any of us, a spouse that buries their head firmly in the sand over financial matters - especially if they are potentially financial difficulties - is a difficult situation to handle. But sometimes, our spouses and partners need time to process what we are saying and take it on board. People work hard for their money, and we're all conditioned to reward ourselves - it is human nature. It's also hard to process that all of a sudden, I still have to go out to work, but can't have a coffee? a dress? a weekend away? a night of cocktails and dancing? - why am i working??

Don't feel the need to reply to my post - it really is none of my business about personality type. But various forums have various posts, and I bet there is more than one forum and more than one post that starts along the lines of, 'we earn £30/50/80/100k, but my spouse says we're broke/need to economise/need to sell up/need to live like oblates'.

Just a point of view, and please feel free to ignore - my questioning is intended to be rhetorical. Most certainly not prying.

Greying X

edinburgher

£306.94 paid off CC, a token gesture to take us below £30k of debt on CCs (with £9k or so left in savings). I needed a win today

You are right about it being a hard one to process, but it won't come as any surprise to her. Mrs E works part-time, so unfortunately her salary doesn't pay 1/2 of our basic bills. She can't be too shocked that large amounts of personal spends are a little unsustainable.

I honestly don't know re. whether she'll come back with a compromise solution.

wishingthemortgaheaway

I've been lurking for a while, reading along. I'm sticking my head above the parapet so I don't feel like I'm snooping anymore.

You are having a tough week, in a tough month. - January is the longest month in the year and everyone feels a bit flat.

Just keep swimming....

ZTD

edinburgher wrote: »

You are all so helpful and positive that multiquote fails me for the first time ever and were I to respond point by point, I would almost definitely break the internet :coffee:

Ha! Lightweight...

edinburgher wrote: »

There are occasional board game nights etc. and they're fab, it's just that our unimaginative group of snowflakes reverts back to posh restaurant 3 minutes later. Which is a PITA with the uneven incomes, as some of the group are the horrible !!!!!! having 4 courses at a 3 course dinner and downing cocktails all night because they're only paying 1/x of the bill :mad:

That is a bit much. When we go out for a bill splitter, it's expected that everything above and beyond the base specification needs an additional full contribution to the cost.

So I pay an obscene amount (full price) for my ice-cream.

But that's fine, because nobody is forcing me to have it.

edinburgher wrote: »

ZTD - I don't like our house because:

edinburgher wrote: »

4) I hate hate hate gardening :rotfl:

Does the Mrs like gardening?

edinburgher wrote: »

As for patience - if I was a patient man I'd probably rule the world already :rotfl:

You wouldn't, because I don't.

edinburgher wrote: »

When you are dragged along to night out after night out with the same boring bunch of petrolheads and gadget addicts, it's hard to avoid comparions (which I'm reliably informed are odious).

Depends what kind of petrolheads and gadget addicts they are. You can make things superb with money, or with work and intelligence. You'd never guess the kind I prefer.

edinburgher wrote: »

Honest to God - all I want is one friend who doesn't give a rat's !!!! about what car they drive :eek:

Isn't it strange how experiences differ. Most people I know don't care. One guy at work when talking about his car will go on endlessly about how many pushchairs he can fit in the boot... :rotfl:

edinburgher

ZTD wrote: »

Does the Mrs like gardening?

No idea, I don't think she views it as her domain

Depends what kind of petrolheads and gadget addicts they are. You can make things superb with money, or with work and intelligence. You'd never guess the kind I prefer.

No, you are a closed book at times Expensive work leased German cars (new every 45 minutes), off the shelf gadgets in whatever size is most garish.

Isn't it strange how experiences differ. Most people I know don't care. One guy at work when talking about his car will go on endlessly about how many pushchairs he can fit in the boot... :rotfl:

See, that's a metric worth talking about! I don't know, awkward !!!! car conversations are the currency of my generation when they've run out of !!!! to talk about.

Grocery shopping finished for the week (Mr M's as using up stock of vouchers). It's a very 'meh' experience going to the big supermarkets these days - convinced I'd have paid £15 less at L1dl.

£40 of vouchers shuffled off grocery budget and paid off CC.

AlexLK

It sounds to me like you take too much on and your wife is happy for you to do so. You say you considered yourself more confident to project manage your renovation project (for whatever reason) and you take care of the finances and shop / cook a lot, garden etc. and work full-time and look after your daughter.

Seeing certain work as out of one's domain either shows a lack of confidence in oneself to undertake the work or a desire to avoid it. Sometimes both. My wife lacks confidence as a parent to the point of being very anxious about parenting, panicking and then avoiding it. The avoiding leads to not building and confidence and being more anxious about it. Ultimately, I really dislike being the person to offer (unsolicited) marriage advice but the two of you need to get on the same page; Mrs. E.'s lack of regard for the finances which in turn means your future is concerning. If there is a lack of confidence on her part, try to address it together.

You cannot spent more than you earn for an indefinite period, nor spend for tomorrow's pay rise(s) (which is likely not 100% certain). I realise you know this but it appears your wife doesn't. I had years spending more than our day-to-day income, it was not pleasant. Before MSE I didn't know what was coming in or being spent, despite telling Mrs. K. I looked after the finances. That was only the case because I insisted when we closed our individual accounts as I was too ashamed to admit I was living in a (seemingly) never ending cycle of debt at the time. The decision to try to push my wife out of looking at our accounts had repercussions long after joining MSE. I don't believe you're trying to do such a thing nor do I think you have the type of toxic marriage I had but I think one person always dealing with finances can have unintended consequences.

edinburgher

Argh - just lost a huge post!

Alex - Mrs E does her fair share - including most of the parenting of DD. I'm an involved dad, but I'm not some sort of super parent, it sounds like you do *a lot* more work with your son than I do with DD.

Totally agree that we need to get on the same page financially, but I live in hope that she will come to the same realisations as me given time (as Greying suggested). A couple of green shoots:

• I pointed out that she could save 15-20% of her pocket money by making a packed lunch and paying for it with our ample grocery budget - she's making lunches next week for the first time in 2 years
• She asked what effect dropping our pocket money from 8% to 6% would have

Baby steps, but at least engaging with the fact that something has to be done and our personal wallets will need to share the pain.

Greying_Pilgrim

edinburgher wrote: »

Baby steps, but at least engaging with the fact that something has to be done and our personal wallets will need to share the pain.

Well, I'm so glad that I dipped into your diary this morning ed - it's good to read ^ And yes, steps forward - albeit baby ones - are infinitely preferable to stock-still stand offs. And, may I be so bold to suggest (although I know, you know, this), baby steps forward are never the actions of someone wholly intent on resolutely digging their heels in................

Just as a matter of interest - are you still making your breakfast burritos in bulk and freezing them to take to work each day? Setting a good example and all that...........

And yes, whole-heartedly agree with you comment about shopping in the 'big' supermercados and their percentage profit mark-ups - depressing isn't it?

Have a great day ed - and thanks for posting - it's good to read

Greying X