UKCPS multiple Windscreen PCN's in my own allocated space

Dlouis

Hi All

Apologies in advance for any misunderstandings, I've read the newwbie posts, but still have a couple of queries.

4 PCN's were stuck on my windscreen in my own allocated parking space by UKCPS. (I don't use my car a lot and is was in the secure underground car park - £240 now or £400 if I delay....). I have a permit, but it had come unstuck from the windscreen at some point (the holder being a branded UKCPS one, so I assume supplied by them)

I am waiting for the NTK before lodging an appeal, but the template appeal letter given seems geared towards non-resident parking, and I'm not certain I should copy it 'verbatim'.

I've read the 'own space' defense posts, but these all seem geared to later in the process.

So my question is, is the PPC (IPC) Appeal template suitable for an initial 'own space' defence.

The rest of this post is just background in case some legal eagle needs more info to answer.

Thanks in advance.


Image of signage hxxp://i68.tinypic.com/33lm8m0.jpg

On UKCPS's website (compliance page) they have both the BPAS and IPC Logos as does their signage, but the BPAS website doesn't have them listed. So I'm assuming they aren't, or are no longer, registered with BPAS, and I will be faced with going the IPC route. Which is why I'm waiting for the NTK

Redx

they may well be members of both , all depends on the shape of the logo and has been explained many times before on here

lets assume they ARE corporate members of both trade bodies

but they are listed under the AOS of one trade body only , the IPC , so they use the IPC adr of the IAS for disputes

so the BPA issue is a non-starter and not relevant as they use the IPC and the IAS and that is the basis on which they have a valid KADOE contract with the DVLA

use tinypic to host your pics and add a dead url on here , changing http to hxxp

never admit who the driver is on an open forum

as for the only insured driver , I and millions of other people in the UK can "drive" your vehicle on OUR insurance and so the driver could be any of them (playing devils advocate here)

nobody here wants to know about the ownership or the insurance details , or how many possible drivers there may be

the vehicle is their target , but they have to find a scapegoat for any contract in order to try to enforce any invoices

never do their job for them , especially not on here as they monitor public forums like this one and its simple to take screenshots

sometimes less is more , and remmber the cop shows

"you have the right to remain silent"
"anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law"

Dlouis

Thanks Redx, (post now edited

Can you answer my question about the template letter being suitable 'as is' for own allocated space parking.

I assume the 'driver' who would be liable in this case is the, unnamed 'driver' who left the vehicle on the first day without a permit, (I appreciate it could have been left each day by a different driver each time, but that may limit any later defense based on the single failure of the CPS supplier holder leading to a force majeure breach of the tissue paper contract that may exist)

Redx

we always tell people to use the correct template (no matter what they think)

in your case it is the black text template

I dont even pretend to know about or understand "own space" arguments but unless you have a valid reason for not using the template (or for amending it) then I fail to see what the concerns are

you should wait for any replies from people who understand the complexities of this

but if UKCPS dont know who was driving for each NTK, they have to adhere to POFA2012 if they want to make the KEEPER liable

this is true for ALL cases where the driver is unknown to the PPC

but they will send the NTK to the keeper because that is all they can do, they will assume that the person is the same entity, both driver and keeper, and these PPC`s try to make that stick with all sorts of case laws that usually fail

SOMETIMES the advice may be given for a driver to be named and appeal for own space issues so that the law concentrates on the "own space" issues and not POFA2012

PERSONALLY , I COMMENTED ON WHAT WAS OBVIOUS TO ME AS A LAY PERSON , NOT LEGALLY TRAINED , READING YOUR POST

stick around for somebody answering those specific legal questions of yours due to it being an "own space" issue which they are familiar with

live link added below

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=33lm8m0&s=9#.WfY5oYhpFPY

on the left its an IPC aos roundel logo

explanations here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5647776

Coupon-mad

4 PCN's were stuck on my windscreen in my own allocated parking space by UKCPS. (I don't use my car a lot and is was in the secure underground car park)

Why has your Managing Agent allowed this nasty firm in at all? You don't need this regime.

Read the threads by Daniel san and hairray to see the sort of thing to do, turn the screw with the Managing Agent.

Do you own under leasehold title, the flat and the space? Or rent?

Do you pay extra for the space and if so, who do you pay/who is your contract with?

Dlouis

I rent, so unfortunately the choice of management agent is outside my control. Though it looks like there was a ticket frenzy so I may drop a few notes around my neighbors.

As to the need. Since the parking is secure, with allocated numbered spaces, other than making money for the management company I can't see any 'benefit' to the tenants. The property is leasehold (so the management company are fixed). However, I do like the idea (from some other posts) of making a counterclaim against them when it comes to the small claims court!

KeithP

What does your rental agreement say about parking?

Umkomaas

However, I do like the idea (from some other posts) of making a counterclaim against them when it comes to the small claims court!

You need to have all your ducks in a row in terms of knowing why you are counterclaiming and where the bar is set. Mess up and you could be paying their costs.

UKCPS are mildly litigious, and may be more encouraged where there are multiple tickets, but they’ve got to issue a claim before you can even contemplate a counterclaim.

Send the standard IPC operator template initial appeal. Nothing you can write in that (or any subsequent IAS appeal) will see this cancelled. So you do what hundreds before you have done, use the template ‘as is’, (to show you have attempted to follow due process to try to sort this out), then ignore anything else that follows other than a LBA or real court papers.

Dlouis

It advises that the property comes with parking, and I also have a copy of the title deeds of the property indicating the allocated space is for my sole 'quiet enjoyment', with no mention of permits. There is an addendum to a schedule of regulations added to my tenancy that says a permit must be shown or "tickets will be issued with a penalty", but I think this was manually added by the landlord. (note word usage, is not a 'charge' but a penalty)

Dlouis

Umkomaas, Thanks, that's what I'm going to do. Guess I just have to wait for the NTK's now.

If anyone can tell me how to do the thing where you see your post as a "reply" to an earlier post (with that shown), let me know. I'm just clicking quick reply, and don't want to confuse people.

KeithP

Dlouis wrote: »

If anyone can tell me how to do the thing where you see your post as a "reply" to an earlier post (with that shown), let me know. I'm just clicking quick reply, and don't want to confuse people.

Click on the 'Quote' button on the post you are replying to.