Civil Enforcement Ltd - Help & Guidance needed please

salmosalaris

Johnersh wrote: »

I'll say it once, I'll say it again on this forum... Do NOT serve a defence until you have FULL particulars of claim. You are not required to even acknowledge service until you have them. A half-baked Defence is positively unhelpful.

As LoC123 says by all means please do write to the court for directions following the claimants non compliance. The least I'd hope for is an unless order, requiring the claimant to serve PoC within 7 days.

Finally, the court cannot direct use of ADR (i.e. compel you to go to the negotiation table) but only that the case appears suitable, so no good asking for that.

Not strictly true , POPLA has been ordered in a few cases , not that I’d recommend it

Maxbrum1

Hi Guys,

Finally received the POC today which is dated 11th Oct, 2017 and has a post mark of 1 Nov.
I have drafted the letter which i am going to send it to the courts and CEL, points taken from LOC123 letter which she had drafted for one of the posters here.

Can you please review it, and see if i have added the dates correctly.

Thanks for all your help and support in advance.

Dear XXXXX

Claim number [xxxxxxx]

I am writing to draw to your attention that the Claimant has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the Claim Form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4(1)(b).

The Claim form was issued on 11th October, stating that the Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form.

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 1st Nov. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on 2nd Nov, However, they were dated the 11th October. which means that my defense is therefore not due until the 16th November (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 21 days, together with the covering letter. This is clearly demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope they arrived in, which shows the date of posting as 1st Nov, a copy of which I have provided as evidence.
The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear – under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the santions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Yours Faithfully

wanderer2426

Hi maxbrum1, your dates are the same as mine so just wondered, had you already sent your defence? I'm trying to draft my letter, but since I have already submitted my defence prior to receiving the 'detailed' particulars of claim (wrong I know now) I'm thinking of omitting the bit about when my defence is due? Does anyone think this is the correct thing to do? Also, I see you have said that they were sent under cover on 1/11/17 which you have assumed the same as the posting date, is this correct to assume? If anyone can confirm if the above is ok, I would also be grateful as I don't want to delay contacting the court to bring the late poc to their attention, thanks.

Maxbrum1

wanderer2426 wrote: »

Hi maxbrum1, your dates are the same as mine so just wondered, had you already sent your defence? I'm trying to draft my letter, but since I have already submitted my defence prior to receiving the 'detailed' particulars of claim (wrong I know now) I'm thinking of omitting the bit about when my defence is due? Does anyone think this is the correct thing to do? Also, I see you have said that they were sent under cover on 1/11/17 which you have assumed the same as the posting date, is this correct to assume? If anyone can confirm if the above is ok, I would also be grateful as I don't want to delay contacting the court to bring the late poc to their attention, thanks.

Hi Wanderer2426,

Thanks to some good people here, i did not submit my defence, although i was about to. Yes under cover relates to the posting date which was 1st Nov. I am sure you can still complain and i think you should because this is a blatant abuse of the legal system which needs to be exposed.

Loadsofchildren123

wanderer, say you are asking the court to consider the issue and make directions as to the way forward, under its inherent R3 case management powers. Say that at the very least you should be given the opportunity to amend your defence because they were late serving the PoC and you mistakenly thought that time was running and you had to file your defence.
You might make reference to being aware that countless others are facing the same issue, CEL apparently having issued batch claims on or around 10/11 October in respect of which PoC are only now being served, but which are all backdated in an attempt to cover up this serious breach of the rules.
The court should either disallow the further PoC as no R3.9 application has been made by CEL, or allow you to amend your defence.
In combination with the backdating, I'd hope the court would make an order.

wanderer2426

Thanks for the advice LOC123, do I include the points in the original letter or would this be a completely different letter? I'm a bit confused as to where to add these bits?

wanderer2426

I have added the bits you suggested, other than the first paragraph that I didn't quite understand. Does the below make sense as a complaint even though I filed my defence? Do I need to change anything? I've got so confused now as I feel like my whole case is jeopordised as I already filed defence. What I don't get is what I would change if I did get to resubmit my defence, would I just be taking out the bits about bad particulars of claim?


Sorry for all questions, really thought I was understanding it all the other week and now it's all changed!!






3rd November 2017

Dear Sir/Madam


Regarding Claim Form XXXXXXXX, I am writing to complain that the Claimant has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).

The Claim form was issued on 11th October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form.

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 1st November 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 2nd November 2017. However they were dated the 11th October 2017. These dates mean that my defence is therefore not sue until 16th November 2017 (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 21 days, together with the covering letter. This is clearly demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope they arrived in, which shows the date of posting as 1st Nov, a copy of which I have provided as evidence.
The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear – under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the sanctions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file.

I believe that the court should either disallow the further Particulars of Claim as no R3.9 application has been made by Civil Enforcement Limited or I should be given the opportunity to amend my defence as they were late serving the Particulars of Claim and I mistakenly thought I was running out of time to file it.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Yours Faithfully


I am also aware that this is written on somebody elses thread and not mine so I appologise, but since the advice was posted here, I thought it may not be seen if I went back to my own thread. Please advise though if I should move it.


Thanks

claxtome

These dates mean that my defence is therefore not sue until 16th November 2017 (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).

I assume you meant "sue" to be "due"

Loadsofchildren123

I think in the interests of not confusing things we should go back to your thread

The_Deep

I am facinated by all of this stuff. If a bank tried this on they would probably end up looking at a PPI disaster.