Mortgage Refused - Sub standard timber frame?

Luthias

Hi All,

first time poster be gentle :rotfl:

After some advice what to do next with this. We are currently applying for a mortgage with Santander to buy our home through the right to buy scheme with our LA. Mortgage was all accepted pending valuation, £999 fees taken in cash even congratulated by the advisor for getting our mortgage accepted :mad:. Surveyor came out and did his measuring. Then a week later we received the report from our lender saying the mortgage had been refused as "The building comprises sub standard timber frame which adversely affects the re saleability of the property." Estate was built in 1978 and there are around 6-7 streets on the estate all with the same construction of property. They were originally timber frame timber clad till recent changes by LA to improve fire safety.

I've done a check on the land registry open data site and in just our street alone 17 properties have 43 transactions showing on them in the last 20 years. Some as recent as 2016. One of them is exactly the same build as ours, but a lot less updated, sold for 160k in 2014 nearly 40k above what we are asking to borrow and has the older wooden cladding the council have replaced recently for cement/fiber cladding to increase fire protection. Ours also has an early warning fire system with smoke, carbon monoxide sensors and sprinkler system, all connected with the surrounding properties and to the local fire station, all installed by the council to improve fire safety and limit spreading if a fire occurred, We have quite a considerable deposit due to the right to buy scheme, ltv is around 65%. Is this normal as our mortgage advisor said she's never had this situation before but isn't filling me with confidence that we will ever get a mortgage through them or another lender.

Any advice is greatfully recieved

Thanks in Advance
Paul

Davesnave

Can't your advisor point you in a different direction re the lender. I believe Santander have something of a reputation for caution in scenarios like this.

There are people here more knowledgeable than me on such details.

Perhaps shifting lender has always been a feature of buying. Back in the 1970s, I saved for years with a building society only to be told "We've run out of funds!" when I needed them. Fortunately, the assistant told me, "But I've heard the building society just up the road has money to lend."

She was right. The society, newly opened, was the Alliance & Leicester, later to become.....part of Santander!:rotfl:

ProDave

It might not be a cladding issue.

I recall an estate of timber framed houses being built near us in that era. At the time, timber frame construction was relatively new to England and a lot of the builders did not understand it, and made errors in the way the buildings were built resulting in condensation, damp frames and frames starting to rot in as little as 10 years.

If yours has been put right, then all you can do is try a different lender.

G_M

Speak to an independant mortgage broker who should know which banks lend against this construction.

Luthias

I spoke with someone at London and Country a couple of days ago. Their advice was that Santander are one of the lenders who usually do lend on timber frame properties. But it's the use of the words "sub standard" that is likely causing the issue and my only option was to appeal the valuation which could cost me the cost of the surveyor and possibly still come back with the same result.

I raised a post valuation query with the lender regarding the use of "sub standard" and the response was "The valuer is referring to the quality of construction and not, for example the actual condition of the concealed timber frame work. A modern timber framed dwelling would have walls of thicker dimensions, a higher level of insulation etc.

The type of construction for these units is considered to adversely affect re-saleability"

newbie1980

Luthias wrote: »

I spoke with someone at London and Country a couple of days ago. Their advice was that Santander are one of the lenders who usually do lend on timber frame properties. But it's the use of the words "sub standard" that is likely causing the issue and my only option was to appeal the valuation which could cost me the cost of the surveyor and possibly still come back with the same result.

I raised a post valuation query with the lender regarding the use of "sub standard" and the response was "The valuer is referring to the quality of construction and not, for example the actual condition of the concealed timber frame work. A modern timber framed dwelling would have walls of thicker dimensions, a higher level of insulation etc.

The type of construction for these units is considered to adversely affect re-saleability"

in telford a lot are timber frame

i have 2 mortgages with birmingham midshires as they definitley do that type of mortgage

shortcrust

The whole point of using a mortgage advisor is that they know what to do when things go wrong. The words that I'd expect to hear after "I've never had this situation before..." is "but I'll do some research and see what we can do."

I'd phone them tomorrow and ask them what their next steps are. If you don't think they're up to the job then I'd think about going elsewhere.

Cakeguts

From a different angle if it was me I wouldn't buy this house under any circumstances. You could be facing an enourmous amount of money to repair it if something is wrong with the timber frame. That could mean that any discount you get could be totally used up in getting the house so that it is structurally sound. If you have the money to repair the timber construction then you could instead put down a decent deposit and buy on the open market and get a house that isn't likely to have structural problems.

As a council house if something happens to it now the council will have the cost of putting it right. By buying it you have the potential problem of having to spend more money on it than you could ever get back simply because it has this problem and it is a local authority house. Just because other people have done something it doesn't mean that this is necessarily the right thing for you to do.

Do you want to own a house that has been turned down for a mortgage because of the way the timber frame was originally built? If you need to sell it how do you think anyone else will be able to buy it? There is always going to be a problem over getting a mortgage.

It seems to me that the sensible way forward would be to continue to rent it from the council so that you are not responsible for the repairs and at the same time try to save some more money so that you can buy a normal house on the open marked that doesn't have all these problems.

Luthias

shortcrust wrote: »

The whole point of using a mortgage advisor is that they know what to do when things go wrong. The words that I'd expect to hear after "I've never had this situation before..." is "but I'll do some research and see what we can do."

I'd phone them tomorrow and ask them what their next steps are. If you don't think they're up to the job then I'd think about going elsewhere.

It's a branch advisor in our local Santander. I guess they usually don't have many properties that are refused to be valued on the grounds of substandard construction. I'd say people who have bought their properties on the estate likely haven't used Santander to buy their property. But how would I find out who has provided mortgages on properties on this estate?

pinklady21

Your adviser at the Santander branch will only be able to offer Santander mortgages. It sounds like Santander are not going to lend on this property. There may be another lender out there who will, but you are either going to have to contact them all one by one, or find an independent mortgage broker who understands the whole mortgage market. It is their job to find you a lender who will lend. However, in your shoes, I would be making very sure that the timber frame is sound and that you are not storing up a very large repair bill some time in the future! Best of luck.

Luthias

Cakeguts wrote: »

From a different angle if it was me I wouldn't buy this house under any circumstances. You could be facing an enourmous amount of money to repair it if something is wrong with the timber frame. That could mean that any discount you get could be totally used up in getting the house so that it is structurally sound. If you have the money to repair the timber construction then you could instead put down a decent deposit and buy on the open market and get a house that isn't likely to have structural problems.

As a council house if something happens to it now the council will have the cost of putting it right. By buying it you have the potential problem of having to spend more money on it than you could ever get back simply because it has this problem and it is a local authority house. Just because other people have done something it doesn't mean that this is necessarily the right thing for you to do.

Do you want to own a house that has been turned down for a mortgage because of the way the timber frame was originally built? If you need to sell it how do you think anyone else will be able to buy it? There is always going to be a problem over getting a mortgage.

It seems to me that the sensible way forward would be to continue to rent it from the council so that you are not responsible for the repairs and at the same time try to save some more money so that you can buy a normal house on the open marked that doesn't have all these problems.

The LA owned block of flats attached to one side of our house had a fire a 4 years ago. The connecting walls on all 3 floors of our house were all stripped back and checked and parts of the roof that were damaged were repaired. The walls are certainly not thin on that side, neither were the wooden beams that were exposed once the walls were stripped back. We were out of the property in temporary accommodation for nearly 18 months while repairs and all the upgrades were made to our property and the flats. The LA used it as a showhome to promote their new fire system before handing it back to us :mad: so I'd hope it's sound after the extensive work done to repair any damage from the fire.

The LA have provided all the structural integrity reports for the the whole of our block dating back to when the block was built as part of the right to buy information on the property too, they all show no issues with the structural integrity.

In the 7 years we have lived in house's on this estate we have not seen anything to cause us concern with the construction of the properties or the levels of insulation (other than the wooden cladding previously replaced), if anything it's always warm in our house and our heatings hardly ever on. Which is why I am happy to buy it and confused by the valuation report from the lender.

I'm only looking to keep the property 5 years then downsize after the older kids find their own place and after the conditions for the right to buy discount end, as we won't need all the extra space. The LA have to have first offer if we sell it between 5-10 years so hopefully they will purchase it back and put it back to social housing which our LA has done recently when I enquired with their RTB team how likely that ever was to happen.