We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Driving tests

Options
24

Comments

  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    facade wrote: »
    So there it is, it doesn't matter what the candidates are like, you have to pass the same % as everybody else, or s##t rains down on you, so when you get close to the target point, passing or failing is pre-ordained to "keep the stats right"
    Umm, no...

    The candidates as a whole can be viewed as a relatively homogeneous group. Let's say that, nationally and viewed as a whole, about half of them pass.

    If one tester is failing 75% of them, then that tester will be looked at to see whether they are too strict.
    If one tester is passing 75% of them, then that tester will be looked at to see whether they are too lax - or are on the take.

    It may well be that they just happen to be allocated outliers amongst the group - in which case, their pass/fail rate is correct, for the individual candidates they test.
  • lister
    lister Posts: 239 Forumite
    facade wrote: »
    So there it is, it doesn't matter what the candidates are like, you have to pass the same % as everybody else, or s##t rains down on you, so when you get close to the target point, passing or failing is pre-ordained to "keep the stats right"

    Every examiner sees numerous tests a week where something borderline happens, where a decision as to driver fault or serious fault is highly marginal.

    So yes, if an examiner realises they are 'short of fails' (or of course 'short of passes') they can easily lean one way or the other on that basis. In my experience (300+ tests I have sat in on) though, it is the rest of the drive so far that is the principal influence.

    The real secret therefore is not to be in a grey area... I have seen many tests passed where I would not have complained at a serious fault being given. I have seen almost none where I felt a pass would have been fairer.
  • wymondham
    wymondham Posts: 6,356 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Mortgage-free Glee!
    Peddled by those that fail.... :)
  • :rotfl: I was told (25 odd years ago) that you were more likely to pass just before lunchtime because there was less paperwork. :rotfl:



    Well that’s just a false myth whilst mine was a true myth.


    Probably :D
  • facade
    facade Posts: 7,582 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 28 October 2017 at 10:23AM
    AdrianC wrote: »
    Umm, no...

    The candidates as a whole can be viewed as a relatively homogeneous group. Let's say that, nationally and viewed as a whole, about half of them pass.

    If one tester is failing 75% of them, then that tester will be looked at to see whether they are too strict.
    If one tester is passing 75% of them, then that tester will be looked at to see whether they are too lax - or are on the take.

    It may well be that they just happen to be allocated outliers amongst the group - in which case, their pass/fail rate is correct, for the individual candidates they test.


    I understand all this, and know about all the reasons statistics driven models fail (e.g. regression to norm), but in the Real World, you don't stick your head over the parapet, or you get shot, so if a dozen marginals have to pass or fail to keep the spotlight away, I know what I'd do. ;)

    As Lister says, the rock solid passes will pass, and the definite fails will fail, but the marginals are where the wiggle room is to hit the target. (Obviously, the smart examiner doesn't get it dead on every time, or that would be suspicious in itself and trigger a microscope examination)
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science ;))
  • I passed my car test yesterday on the 1st attempt (had the bike provision on my license since 2010 though), oo-er, 27th of the month - guess I should have been bricking it, right? :eek::p

    In the end I only got 2 minors, one of them for not overtaking a stopped bus on a one-way system (in fairness, he'd been there ages so I expected him to pull off any second, although in hindsight he'd probably seen me approaching and decided to hold back, expecting me to overtake; So I did hesitate - It was a fair call on the examiner's part).

    I was expecting to fail (as everyone does), and imo had the examiner really, really wanted to for whatever reason, he could have failed me.

    I also happen to know the the same examiner failed a young guy the day before on the parallel park for lack of obs, so my (unscientific) view is that had any such nonsensical super-secret-spy "quota" system been in place, I'd be doing the re-book dance today instead of the happy dance.
  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,837 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I passed my car test yesterday on the 1st attempt (had the bike provision on my license since 2010 though), oo-er, 27th of the month - guess I should have been bricking it, right? :eek::p

    In the end I only got 2 minors, one of them for not overtaking a stopped bus on a one-way system (in fairness, he'd been there ages so I expected him to pull off any second, although in hindsight he'd probably seen me approaching and decided to hold back, expecting me to overtake; So I did hesitate - It was a fair call on the examiner's part).

    I was expecting to fail (as everyone does), and imo had the examiner really, really wanted to for whatever reason, he could have failed me.

    I also happen to know the the same examiner failed a young guy the day before on the parallel park for lack of obs, so my (unscientific) view is that had any such nonsensical super-secret-spy "quota" system been in place, I'd be doing the re-book dance today instead of the happy dance.

    Your conclusion is right, but the logic is dodgy. Examiners do seven tests a day, not one!

    Anyway, congrats on passing:o
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    facade wrote: »
    I understand all this, and know about all the reasons statistics driven models fail (e.g. regression to norm), but in the Real World, you don't stick your head over the parapet, or you get shot, so if a dozen marginals have to pass or fail to keep the spotlight away, I know what I'd do. ;)
    Except, of course, an individual examiner has no idea what the national average will be...
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Debt-free and Proud!
    edited 28 October 2017 at 3:28PM
    cjdavies wrote: »
    It's a myth told/believed by those that fail.

    Correct. I've never been told that, by someone who passed first time.

    It's like the old "size doesn't matter".

    I bet that's never been said, by someone who is hung like a donkey.
  • *this is also a myth that I just made up.

    It's also an urban myth, that 94.26% of statistics are made up. :D
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.5K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.9K Life & Family
  • 257.2K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.