Can I park here? Please help

andrewellis004

Hi, hoping to gain your insights into this...

I work for a large IT company based in Chorley, Lancashire who lease the building. The company who own the building also own the surrounding land and numerous car parks on it (there are a few small car parks, all split into different areas & sections because the site used to be the old Royal Ordnance site. You can see what I mean by looking at the aerial view here:
<popular search engine> /maps/@53.6719398,-2.6565473,260a,35y,180h/data=!3m1!1e3
(it won't let me add links so you'll have to complete the URL lol)

The landlord company has recently decided to employ SIP to manage their car parks, and there have been signs put up all over the site - the usual car park signs threatening fines etc.
I have checked, and they are a member of IPC.

The problem is, they recently communicated to all the office workers that we are "using too many spaces than have been allocated to the business" and therefore have banned us from using one particular row of spaces. These are the ~16 spaces you can see on the aerial view (link above), between Blink Photo and the grassy area.

Nobody is allowed to use these spaces, from either business. They have put 3 or 4 "no stopping" cones along that line of spaces (the type you see put out by police or the council during marathon events, etc).
You can see photos here:
photos app goo gl /i86uX2q0XYUau4Sl1
(sorry - again, it won't let me add links so you'll have to add a few dots!)

My question is simply - can I park here anyway? I'm not sure if the "no stopping" cones are enforceable, but there isn't one cone per space so they aren't properly blocked off, and the cones are not mentioned on the signage.

There aren't enough spaces for everyone, and many peoples cars have been damaged due to the tiny space sizes - they were painted in the 80s.

Hoping someone can advise, sorry for the lengthy explanation but I wanted to include all detail.
Thanks, Andrew

pappa_golf

The problem is, they recently communicated to all the office workers that we are "using too many spaces than have been allocated to the business" and therefore have banned us from using one particular row of spaces.

who communicated , by what method?

andrewellis004

The land owner communicated to the facilities contractor (CBRE) via email, and then this information was distributed out to all workers in the building via email.

Redx

as its private land , the landowner can legally do as they please , including asking for barriers/cones/whatever

its an unregulated industry , so you need to comply with their wishes , or SIP can and will issue an MCOL to anyone getting a ticket and not paying it

pappa_golf

I suspect 2 things here

1: the number of spaces are being reduced in order to exasperate the already bad parking arrangement , and in order vthat SIP may send more invoices out , possability that the landowner is on a percentage as well

2: changes can only be made by a newly written lease , additions cannot just be added ad lib

and it worries me that there will now be empty bays when they are needed

TheMisterMan

Is the use of those spaces granted by a lease?
If so, does the lease allow for the landlord to impose new rules about parking?
If so, were the proper notifications to the business given?

If the spaces are granted in the lease and there is nothing mentioned otherwise then the landlord cannot retroactively remove the right to use them.

If the spaces were never covered by the lease then you should respect the landlord's decision and not park there.

The murky area would be if a lease granted the spaces but contained a clause that would allow the landlord to change this. The lease would likely have a procedure the landlord must follow in order to do this. There could also be other clauses in the lease at play.

andrewellis004

ok, thanks for the info Redx. However the signage states that you must not park on double yellow lines single yellow lines, on roads or hatched areas, pavements & grass.

It doesn't say you can't park in painted spaces, and I'm pretty sure what they communicated via email is not enforceable by SIP?

The cones are only placed in front of 3 or 4 spaces.

Redx

that lease is paramount to answering the question

without sight of the lease or the sip contract, its impossible to know

the employees should err on the side of caution, as can be seen in the UHW debacle in wales recently where INDIGO won and leave to appeal was refused

SIP can enforce whatever is in their contract as its private land, only a judge can decide , so if you wanted to be the test case ???????????

andrewellis004

TheMisterMan wrote: »

Is the use of those spaces granted by a lease?
If so, does the lease allow for the landlord to impose new rules about parking?
If so, were the proper notifications to the business given?

If the spaces are granted in the lease and there is nothing mentioned otherwise then the landlord cannot retroactively remove the right to use them.

If the spaces were never covered by the lease then you should respect the landlord's decision and not park there.

The murky area would be if a lease granted the spaces but contained a clause that would allow the landlord to change this. The lease would likely have a procedure the landlord must follow in order to do this. There could also be other clauses in the lease at play.

Interesting - I never thought about it from this perspective. I, a user of the car park, have nothing to do with the lease between my employer and the land owner, so I can't understand how they could enforce a parking fine on me parking within an unrestricted bay, just because I work for a particular company?

Redx

by parking there you normally create a contract , which the signs allude to

I suggest you read the INDIGO win at UHW in wales , they were NHS employees and the car park is leased by INDIGO , INDIGO won in court and the NHS workers are in a bad position regarding costs

all these private parking charges occur on private land and SIP do take out court proceedings against people

pappa_golf

signage is the key , a set of no waiting bollards stolen from the high street are not SIGNAGE