Train Station "PenaltyCN"

Hockey27

Hi all

Thanks in advance for any help and advice on this matter

The Driver at a South Western station yesterday, something that has been done 50+ times in the past 6 months, after parking up, collecting prepaid train tickets and heading to the platform an attempt was made to pay for parking via ringo. Major issue ensues, the company phone was being migrated to a new platform meaning there was no data service and unfortunately no time to go back to the ticket office and car before the train arrived. After a few phone calls with the office the data service was unable to be restored meaning a ticket could not be put on.

Upon return to the car a PCN was on the windscreen (which left an awful amount of residue once removed), stating all the usual, byelaws, prosecution etc etc. Once able (the first available chance)parking was immediately paid for at the full day rate/ full charge that would have been incurred.

Ultimately the driver is aware that they have fallen foul of the rules, but not through a deliberate act, what options are there form this point?


- Are there extenuating circumstances regards the phone service - no data, cannot use app or internet to find phone number

- Where the fee was paid in full has the company suffered "no material loss" therefore the fine is unwarranted

- The contravention is "not displaying a permit or ticket", every time the car has been parked a ticket has always been paid for, so never displayed a ticket/ permit, surely if this is the offence a fine should have been issued every time

- One major point of query, a "PENALTY Charge Notice" was issued apposed to a "PARKING Charge, having read the forums and other websites it appears as if only councils, local authorities and police can hand thee out. Is the charge unenforceable as they are none of the above?




Thanks again all

Umkomaas

Is this from Indigo?

Use the template appeal in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post # 1, do not add or change anything.

Indigo no longer provide access to POPLA (why the DVLA has swallowed this GOK), so you just need to ride this out. The TOC (not Indigo) has 6 months to launch a prosecution through the Mags Court, so you need to get past that time point as your first objective. None has done so for ages, not since they’ve contracted PPCs to harass their customers.

Do not reveal the identity of the driver.

Indigo (nor any other PPC operating on ‘not relevant land’) have ever launched their own case through the small claims court. This is now a game of patience, and you need to be in it for the long run. A small claim can be launched at any time up to 6 years.

None of your suggested challenges will work. There’s no profit for Indigo in cancelling parking charges.

Hockey27

Hey Umkomaas

The company was CP Plus who are in the BPA

I did see the template and was planning on using it, just wanted to know if there were any specifics to potentially add, such as "no loss was suffered"

Within the template it mentions about the signs, the charges are in small print but its clear that there are parking restrictions - does this matter or should I challenge that the signs are unclear?

I did wonder about the challenges, as I say, the rules were breached although not deliberately, but the main issue revolves around the issuing of a PENALTY charge notice, using it to make it go away on a technicality given that they are not/ shouldnt be able to issue a PENALTY


Thanks

pappa_golf

does the ticket offer POPLA ?

Hockey27

Hey pappa golf

It references that an appeal can be made via their website, but no specific mention to POPLA


Would this fall under "not relevant land" too?

Tigsteroonie

If you were part of the same company phone migration as I was yesterday morning, you should have received at least two emails warning you that it was going to happen on that day and that there might be a loss of service ... Anyway, follow the expert guidance below and on the Newbies sticky and welcome to MSE :wave:

pappa_golf

Hockey27 wrote: »

Hey pappa golf

It references that an appeal can be made via their website, but no specific mention to POPLA


Would this fall under "not relevant land" too?

yes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


timing is important , you have to time this out over 6 mths , so take your time , use (in this case) royal mail with proof of postage , NO email addresses , where they can say "gone to spam" , reply each time , and time it out

Hockey27

Tigsteroonie - unfortunately not, it was only discovered once it wasn't working! The IT team aren't exactly on the ball!!

pappa golf - so what should the opening gambit be, the email from the newbies thread unedited?

Where should this reference "not relevant land"??

Umkomaas

Use the newbies template as is. Nothing you can add to it will change anything. It really doesn’t help to question advice, or seek to add/change things. We really are busy here, and to have to repeat everything means we’re not helping someone else. I said ‘no changes’ in my first post.

Use the template appeal in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post # 1, do not add or change anything.

As this isn’t Indigo, there may be an opportunity to get this killed at POPLA. Drag it out - as advised by PG.

Where might I reference "not relevant land"??

The Protection of Freedoms Act, 2012.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Enshrined in legislation.

Hockey27

Hey Umkomaas

I know I'm bringing up more questions/ taking up time by asking them, just want to be sure.

For reference, I have been reading the BPA Code of conduct, it would appear to me they are in breach of clauses 15.1 & 15.4, have you come across this before?


15.1 - You must not misrepresent to the public that the parking
control and enforcement work you are doing is carried
out under the statutory powers of the police or some
other public authority.

15.4 - You must not use terms which imply that you are acting
under statutory authority; this will include terms such as
‘fine’, ‘penalty’ or ‘penalty charge notice’.

Finally, I've seen on forums that if paid within 14 a discount of 40% or more should be offered, this would make the charge £48 not £50. is this another breach of guidelines


sorry to ask more questions, hoping the above might lend itself to another avenue for others?

KeithP

None of that is worth mentioning in your initial appeal.

Maybe use it at POPLA.

Complain to the BPA about one of their members breaking the club rules if you like.