Will someone lose benefit if they live with us?

Laprivan

Mojisola wrote: »

If you aren't charging him rent, he can't put in a claim for help with his rent.

If he claims it when you aren't charging him anything to stay there, he will be committing fraud!

Thanks. And that's why I'm glad I asked if there were any other things I should be aware of

I hadn't thought about the details. From earlier responses it seemed that there were reasons why charging rent would be a good idea (I'm still not sure why), but it just seems to complicate things unnecessarily. If I just ignore rent completely, which was my initial plan, then he will still receive his non rent related benefit, without any of us causing potential problems with the DWP.

annandale

Why would it cause him problems if he stopped claiming rent element then claimed it again at a future date?

PasturesNew

You need to charge him rent and take him in as a formal lodger. He will be able to make a claim for his rent from benefits.

This will help his mental health issues because he will be having to address the whole issue of maintaining rent payments and being held accountable for his behaviours in the house and his "sense of place" within the household dynamic.

He won't feel like a freee-l0ader and, if he annoys you, you won't be able to "throw it in his face".

If you chose to use his rent money to save it up and then advance him a "loan" from that money in the future when he's able to move on and needs deposit money etc, then that's one way you might be able to mentally deal with the "surplus funds you feel awkward about taking".

You do need to maintain a landlord/lodger relationship and paying rent helps cement that. Get him to pay it to you in cash each week, or get a formal rent book and check your bank weekly to see it's gone in, then ask for his rent book and sign it... so the "money changing hands" becomes part of the structure of the arrangement.

While it's nice to go round giving a free home to people - they do need to feel enabled and not disabled by your generosity.

I'm sure, too, maintaining a "rent is paid" file with the benefits office would make moving on easier.

Find out how much LHA he'd be entitled to (under 35, shared house/room rate; over 35 1-bed rate) ... and charge about the same as that.

I believe that as he feels stronger, getting it free will make him feel less positive/confident as his "sense of place" will become warped and he will struggle to understand how/where he slots in - and maybe to have conversations with you about moving on etc as he will feel like "an ungrateful s0d" to mention it.

Laprivan

annandale wrote: »

If he is going to be evicted in the near future, why?

Rent arrears to a private landlord I believe.

Thanks for clarifying the situation if he needed to apply for help with housing again. It seems that at least we won't be causing any potential future problems which was all I was concerned about.

People here have been very helpful and answered my original question, but if any of you have a minute or two to spare I'm curious about the following.

annandale wrote: »

As for suggesting that he pockets the money, it's fraud as you've already been informed

We won't be charging rent, so this won't be happening, but what would prevent me from drawing up an agreement, charging rent of £50 a week, accepting the money as rent and giving it straight back as a gift? If that is fraud then it implies that the DWP is making it illegal for people to give (small) gifts of cash that they have earned, and paid tax on, to whoever they want?

annandale

No they don't need to charge him rent. It's very much their choice. As for referring to someone as an ungrateful sod if they've been the people to offer free accommodation in the first place is ridiculous.

Why would anyone say that? And I'm sorry, saving up rent money you get from the dwp and then giving it back to someone is as much fraud as allowing him to keep it in the first place.

My landlord doesn't give rent money back to me, why should anyone get money from the dwp for rent costs and be able to give this back to someone?

Paying rent helps with mental health issues? Seriously?

I hope the people who round on people on these sections of the boards referring to anyone on benefit as a scrounger is watching a thread where it's being suggested that someone claims rent element from the dwp and then hands it back to the person claiming it.

I'd love my landlord to be able to give me my rent money back. They can't.

Please don't suggest that anyone does this, it's fraudulent and it's wrong.

annandale

So you are saying that you he claims the money from the dwp as rent element and then you gift him the same amount back from your wages.

Would you be gifting him the 50 pounds a week if he wasn't claiming rent element?

If he's not paying rent to you. Or being charged for food or council tax or any other living expenses and he gets 317 a month on universal credit why would you need to give him an additional 200 pounds a month as gifts?

Universal credit is also means tested. And while 200 pounds a month wouldn't be enough money to take someone over the 6000 a year they can have in savings before their uc would be affected, the dwp can ask to check bank accounts and they might have an issue with someone being gifted the exact amount of money back that they are claiming in rent element from their landlord every month.

Particularly if they aren't being asked to pay any rent.

annandale

Am on my phone and can't edit. Sorry, in the scenario above he'd be paying the rent to you and you'd be gifting it straight back to him. If you paid it into his bank account I'm sure a compliance officer might ask why the exact same amount of money is going back into his bank account as a gift.

If you gave it to him cash in hand then it would be harder to trace.

However as I'm sure you'll realise that most peoples landlords aren't in the legal position to be able to gift money straight back to a tenant.

You are basically going to be claiming 2400 a year for rent costs and then gifting the same amount back. Not keeping any of the money as income in effect.

That isn't what housing element is for. It's to pay rent to your landlord.

teddysmum

Your offer is a good gesture, except for giving him a bonus of taxpayers' money in the form of reimbursed rent.


Perhaps,between job searching, he could do some household tasks to show his gratitude, instead of watching tv while you work and also make a gesture of paying for his food etc or treating the pair of you to meals bought out or home cooked.


I do hope that this works out for you as a couple as, if he appears to be becoming a long term resident, it could affect your relationship with your partner. Unless he does find work, so can keep up his own home,he will be low priority for housing being youngish, a single male and already having shelter.

annandale

We won't be charging rent, so this won't be happening, but what would prevent me from drawing up an agreement, charging rent of £50 a week, accepting the money as rent and giving it straight back as a gift? If that is fraud then it implies that the DWP is making it illegal for people to give (small) gifts of cash that they have earned, and paid tax on, to whoever they want?

Except you wouldn't be giving it back as a gift from money that you have earned and paid tax on. You would be giving it back from money that he has claimed to pay rent to yourselves.

If you don't need housing element, you shouldn't be claiming housing element.

Basically you would be taking the hit on his living expenses and then giving his rent back to him, why would you do that?

Laprivan

annandale wrote: »

Except you wouldn't be giving it back as a gift from money that you have earned and paid tax on. You would be giving it back from money that he has claimed to pay rent to yourselves.

If you don't need housing element, you shouldn't be claiming housing element.

Basically you would be taking the hit on his living expenses and then giving his rent back to him, why would you do that?

Firstly, in case anyone else is reading this, my original question has been answered and if you've better things to be doing with your time like helping other people, thanks for the help you've already given and please ignore my ramblings.

OK, the problem I have is that people were using the word fraud and seemed to be implying that I would be guilty of some sort of crime if I chose to give my own money away. This surprised me and I can't see how the DWP could regard what I was proposing as criminal regardless of how much they did not like it. Hence my followup question.

Here's the scenario:

1) I agree that someone can come and live as a lodger in my home for £X a week and they take that agreement to the DWP and ask them to pay benefit to cover that rent.

2) Person moves in and when the rent becomes due pays me £X. I provide a receipt to say the rent has been paid and sign any rent book or other required proof. I arrange the rent to be paid into my account and at the end of the tax year will declare it as taxable income.

* At this point the rent paid, subject to tax, is mine to do with how I please.

3) At some point afterwards, I decide, voluntarily, with no compunction, for no personal gain, out of the goodness of my heart, to give my lodger £X, which just happens to be the rent figure.

4) (Optional?) Person tells DPW they have been given a gift of £X (gift because it is unearned income and the person giving the money is under no compulsion to do so).

So how is this fraud?

I can see that people would make moral judgements, but I can't see that it is actually criminal.