Income Support + ESA (Couple): Applicable Premiums?

epitome

ViZuS wrote: »

For (2) I don't think we're challenging the calculator results which show as follows (at 2016/17 amounts):
APPLICABLE AMOUNT:
personal allowance (main phase): £114.85
client support component: £36.20
enhanced disability premium: £22.60
carer premium: £34.60
Total: £208.25
INCOME:
contribution based ESA: £112.05
Partner's carer's allowance: £62.10
Assessed income for ESA (income-related): £174.15
ESA (INCOME-RELATED) = £208.25 - £174.15 = £34.10

Employment Support Allowance Income Related route:
£114.85 PA
£34.95 CP
£36.55 SG
£22.85 EDP
Total: £209.20 - £62.70 CA = £146.50

ESA C = £112.05
ESA IR top up = £146.50 - 112.05 = £34.45

ESA £146.50
CA = £62.70
IS = £0.00 (closed)
TOTAL = £209.20

OK - FAIRLY SURE THE ABOVE IS ALL CORRECT,

It is now.

but now for an analysis of version (1) which we are ALREADY supposed to be receiving based on using our current status as the input data:
APPLICABLE AMOUNT:
personal allowance (main phase): £114.85
disability premium: £45.95
enhanced disability premium: £22.60
carer premium: £34.60
Total: £218.00
INCOME:
contribution based ESA: £112.05
Client carer's allowance: £62.10
Assessed income for Income Support: £174.15
INCOME SUPPORT = £218.00 - £174.15 = £43.85

You can't get the EDP on Income Support under these circumstances, the calculator is wrong.

Income Support route:
114.85 PA
46.40 DP
34.95 CP
Total = £196.20 - £62.70 - £112.05 = £21.45

ESA C = 112.05
IS = 21.45
CA = 62.70
TOTAL = £196.20

BUT CURRENTLY DWP DOES NOT GIVE US THE ENHANCED DISABILITY PREMIUM INCLUDED IN THIS INCOME SUPPORT RESULT IMMEDIATELY ABOVE, SO SHOULD THEY AS ACCORDING TO THIS CALCULATOR RESULT???

NO, BECAUSE IT DOES NOT APPLY IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE.

We get that EDP is not supposed to be paid with a (Cont) ESA claim, still in both results the calculator lists the income as "contribution based" BUT DOES make EDP applicable.

The calculator is wrong on the IS calculation.

SO, here's the question we're considering:
If Income Support is about making an Income-related claim (which has to account for whole household income), then doesn't that also mean that partner's ESA payment can effectively be treated as Income-related too (even though there is an underlying contribution-based entitlement)? By this interpretation then, EDP does become applicable in my Income Support claim (on grounds of partner being in ESA support group), and it's just that DWP haven't been accounting for it properly all this time - who can confirm or challenge this please?

LOL, no. The ESA in this circumstance is 100% contributory (£112.05) it is not "underlying ESA Conts, **it is** ESA Conts. Premiums are only paid on Income Related Benefits, the Income Related benefit in this circumstance is the Income Support. Income Support does not have an award of EDP by virtue of having a partner who is in the ESA Support Group. It just doesn't. You can't challenge it, that would be like challenging that grass should be orange instead of green.

Alternatively we have considered it this way:
Can one be on Cont ESA but entitled to IR ESA though not directly claiming it because partner is instead receiving IS as an income based benefit already (and 2 income-based claims not allowed from same household)? Then if entitled to IR ESA in own right, when partner claims IS on their behalf to achieve an applicable amount, can EDP (by virtue of Support Group) be validly given under the IS claimant?

NO, you can only have 1 Income Related claim within partners/a couple. The ESA will be "ESA Conts Only" no ESA(IR) will exist be it underlying or otherwise.

IS THIS WHY THE CALCULATOR 'THINKS' IT IS RIGHT TO ADD THIS PREMIUM ON TO OUR BENEFITS ESTIMATE??

No, the calculator, if it is doing as you say, is just plainly wrong.

Our conclusion is that the position of Cont or IR ESA, and resulting conditions and premiums due for whatever reasons, makes perfect sense when ESA is considered for a single claimant living on their own. However, when a partner is introduced into the equation there can be a mix of Cont and IR-based eligibilities, but with the ESA claimant also being entitled to BOTH Cont and IR-based benefits in their own right! So how should this combination be treated by DWP?

As already explained... Only one of you can have Income Related Benefit, therefore only 1 of you can have premiums.

Really wishing there was a more reliable calculator out there, that someone could recommend for us to use, that properly understands all the ins and outs of ESA?

There should be, perhaps you should email your results to the calculator owner and ask them to fix the error.

So, so sorry for the large post, but otherwise it's just all in our heads and driving us CRAZY!!! Not going to add anything further unless someone asks for any extra details we've not already given.

No Problem, hopefully you understand now.

Did you see this post above

Originally Posted by pmlindyloo
Apologies.

Have deleted my post so as not to confuse anyone. Was using ESA instead of Income Support.

Have just used MSE quick benefit check and there was no EDP included.

She seems to be saying that when she checked Income Support her calculation gave no EDP in the result.


You have to be sure that when you enter the DLA Care or the PIP DL that you do not say it is High rate or enhanced rate respectively.

I don't think you have actually said what rate her DLA Care or PIP Daily is.....What rate is it?


,

ViZuS

Epitome, thanks for the response to each and every point, very clear. Can only conclude that calculator is wrong for the Income Support calculation. Have completed and checked the form so many times now to make sure not made any errors in our input status, still that's what it gives us, an EDP in Income Support. I appreciate and acknowledge this clearly doesn't reflect anyone else's understanding of the actual welfare rules, therefore the rule-base being used in the calculator must be at fault (highly concerning when these calculators are used by so many people and agencies!). To be clear, we've been using the MSE website's own integrated calculator that is powered by EntitledTo (so one of the government recommended sources supposedly). Yes, I did see the previous post that suggests a different result, but that MUST have come from a different calculator/website as I have checked the MSE one a great many times that results in the wrong EDP addition (and we have been correctly recording DLA Care as middle rate only in every instance). Any of you are welcome to specifically check the MSE calculator using all our details as above, but for whatever reason I'm now satisfied that this particular calculator is the source of the problem. Therefore IR ESA is the best way forward for us.