ESA and private pension

Alice_Holt

OP - It may be worth looking at PIP -
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/check-you-are-eligible/
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-self-test

TELLIT01

Glad to see I'm not going totally gaga. It is the PHI that I was vaguely remembering, and the 50% contribution is what often catches claimants out as these schemes are often more than 50% funded by employers.
To the OP regarding being punished for being preventative - you aren't the first to feel this way and you won't be the last. Many (most) of the people I worked with felt that the system worked against those who had tried to 'save for a rainy day' and supported those who had spent every penny they earned. It's entirely possible to find 2 claims where every aspect matched e.g. working life, earnings, etc but the one difference was one had saved and the other hadn't, the saver gets nothing and the other gets the support. Fair?? Absolutely not, but thems the rules and only Parliament can change them.

Mark4321

I have found scan of application for my pension and the top says :
Aplication for award of pension on ill health retirement. Sorry, but I don't have any payslips .

I have looked at my provider policy and there is no mention that this scheme is kind of any insurance . Says it is a pension scheme and one of its elements is possibility to retire on ill health grounds. They send me a letter when they moved my from lower to upper tier what caused increase in my ill pension. This letter says that I retired on ill health grounds. So is it all good for me or not ?

I am reading all your posts again and looked at this what Epitome provided :
Disregarded payments

44716 Certain payments may be received by the claimant but do not fall to be deducted from ESA(Cont)

Pension payments

44717 Payments may be payable to the claimant under
1. a personal pension scheme or
2. an occupational pension scheme or
3. a public service pension scheme and

because a person who was a member of the scheme has died.

44718 Any payments in DMG 44717 are known as survivors' benefits and should be disregarded in full

So because my ill pension doesn't come from insurance company for sure and it is personal and occupational pension scheme DWP should not take it into account to stop my ESA ? Am I right or not ?

Alice_Holt

Mark4321 wrote: »

So because my ill pension doesn't come from insurance company for sure and it is personal and occupational pension scheme DWP should not take it into account to stop my ESA ? Am I right or not ?

I'm afraid you're not right.
Your pension will be taken into account, I think.

The section you've referred to relates to a pension inherited by a spouse on the death of their partner. Hence the term " survivors' benefits". These are not taken into account (i.e disregarded).

Had it been payments from PHI - this could be disregarded in some circumstances.

xylophone

Scottish Public Pension Agency.

http://www.sppa.gov.uk/

The Scottish Public Pensions Agency (SPPA) is an Agency of the Scottish Government. Its principal role is to administer the pensions for employees of the National Health Service, Teachers', Police and Firefighters' schemes in Scotland.


Did the OP work for one of the above? Or did he work for the SPPA?

At all events it would appear that he has an ill health pension paid from a DB Scheme?

Could the pension have increased because he started on one tier and then changed to another because of a deteriorating condition?

Regarding 50 % contribution I can't be sure about this as heard this from my friend only and would have to contact SPPA.

I am mystified by this - could the OP have made additional pension contributions/bought additional pension/bought AVCs/had BUPA or similar through his employment?

Mark4321

I have worked for NHS and started with lower tier in 2014. In 2016 because of health deterioration was moved to higher tier what resulted in pension increase. SPPA is running my supperanuation scheme and they are my ill pension provider. I did not have any other additional insurance plan in place . Contrtibution to SPPA were my only ones. Yes, my ill pension is paid from my DB scheme where years of service , age and contributions I have made ( vary every month ) were calculated tp produce my ill pension and later pension when I get to retirement age. I am not sure what do you mean DB so googled and seems to me my pension comes from DB but I am not sure.

If the survior benefit inherited from a claimant of schems listed in section 44717 should be disregarded can't understand why this would not work same way for the alive claimant ?

epitome

OP,


You should ask the SPPA if it would fall under "Permanent Health Insurance"


Let's not jump to any conclusions, as I am pretty sure this section is listed under "Pensions Income" in DWP guidance. It is all semantics (if that is the right word to use), "Ill health Pension" and "Permanent Health Insurance" are probably one and the same thing. And I have often seen "NHS Pension on ill Health grounds" being disregarded on ESA Conts.


As to the % of premiums paid, maybe the DWP do not bother to check this. And maybe the providers -knowing about the rules for ESA Conts- make sure that all participants pay more than 50%.....and maybe that's why DWP does not bother to check it.


I vote that we should now wait and see what further info you can come up with on Monday.


When you phone ESA ask if there are any notes on your record -when your claim started- about your pension being fully disregarded as an "ill health pension".


And remember to ask for a call back from FEPS.

If the survior benefit inherited from a claimant of schems listed in section 44717 should be disregarded can't understand why this would not work same way for the alive claimant ?

Because to qualify under that rule someone has to be dead.....that's the rule, the deceased partner's pension, and only the deceased partner's pension is disregarded....the ESA Claimant's own pension is not disregarded.

Mark4321

Your are right my pension description is exactly like that :NHS Pension on ill health grounds.
So I will certainly contact them tomorrow and let you know what they said . Just to let you know I am in the possesion of the documents ( scans ) I provided DWP when I informed them about my ill pension so have a proof I did not cheat and I am not fraudelant person.

xylophone

https://www.rcn.org.uk/get-help/rcn-advice/ill-health-retirement-nhs-pension-scheme

Seems relevant to the OP?


If you are unfit for any kind of work you can claim or continue to receive Employment Support Allowance (ESA) from the DWP in addition to your occupational pension. Any occupational pension you receive over £85 per week will reduce the amount of ESA you receive by half of the excess. For example: if your pension is £85.50 per week, your ESA is reduced by 25p.

If your ill-health retirement was due to an industrial injury or disease that occurred before 31 March 2013 you may also be entitled to NHS Permanent Injury Benefit (PIB). This claim can be made at the same time as your ill health retirement application. NHS Pension is regarded as income for the purposes of assessing PIB.

Payment of an occupational pension does not impact on any Industrial Injuries Disablement benefit you receive from the DWP.

epitome

xylophone wrote: »

Seems relevant to the OP?


If you are unfit for any kind of work you can claim or continue to receive Employment Support Allowance (ESA) from the DWP in addition to your occupational pension. Any occupational pension you receive over £85 per week will reduce the amount of ESA you receive by half of the excess. For example: if your pension is £85.50 per week, your ESA is reduced by 25p.

If your ill-health retirement was due to an industrial injury or disease that occurred before 31 March 2013 you may also be entitled to NHS Permanent Injury Benefit (PIB). This claim can be made at the same time as your ill health retirement application. NHS Pension is regarded as income for the purposes of assessing PIB.

Payment of an occupational pension does not impact on any Industrial Injuries Disablement benefit you receive from the DWP.

Hi,


This doesn't appear to help us. The first paragraph is standard Occ Pen £85 disregard. The latter does not mention any disregards on ESA Conts for their Ill Health Pensions.


But from following your link, they have put it in the same section as the ill health pension, so they are saying it will be treated as a standard occ pen by ESA..... hmmm . I really do wonder if DWP are getting these disregards wrong by giving them when they should not...