Bully not moving

sangie595

lili2008 wrote: »

I know. However, knowing him as I do, the behaviour will continue. What then? Another grievance that goes round in the same circle?

Sorry, but you just proved nicechaps point! "Knowing him as you do"? No, you don't know him after a grievance had been upheld. I get it. I understand. BUT the purpose of a grievance is to change something, and you are presupposing that that hasn't happened. You don't get that luxury. Or, to put it another way- if you did something wrong, wouldn't you expect a second chance? Have you considered that perhaps he doesn't want to move because he wants a chance to prove he can get this right? Fairness applies to everyone, not just the "innocent". Have you even stopped to think about what it might be like coming back into that team, knowing everyone complained about him and were right to? That takes some guts. Most people would happily slink off somewhere else. So maybe he won't change. But maybe he will! Natural justice also demands that people's past mistakes aren't held against them as permanent blots.

lili2008

Fair enough. He might change. If he stays, I hope so of course.

But in the event that he does not, which is one of a range of possibilities, what then?

I am here for practical advice.

lili2008

nicechap wrote: »

Things like this where you've already pre-judged the outcome

But what was it about my earlier post? The one you quoted came later, after yours.

stuartJo1989

lili2008 wrote: »

Not sure how you have inferred we're a problem team. Or that I'm a bit too cushy etc. Bit of a leap.

I didn't say that you were anything. I was more suggesting that you may be like that for the reasons mentioned.

DUTR

nicechap wrote: »

The grievance has been upheld and its for the organisation to decide how to deal with the consequences.

To be frank, you sound like you want to be judge and jury and now want revenge rather than justice.

I agree, OP , from the outside reading this thread it slightly appears to me that the team are the bullies, as long as your complaints have been acknowledged, that's all you need know, the 'punishment' or resolve is on a confidential basis.
Surely one of the team members could apply for the supervising role when one/it becomes vacant?

nicechap

lili2008 wrote: »

But what was it about my earlier post? The one you quoted came later, after yours.

I'm going to indulge you a little.

lili2008 wrote: »

Having had 7 separate counts of bullying upheld, what could possibly be the reason for him justifying staying? Maybe he wants to prove himself to his boss? And its none of your businessAlso, if this is relevant, pretty much the entire 7 of us are very high performers (regularly reflected in feedback, appraisal etc) and he is not. He struggles with everything In your opinion - have you seen his appraisal?and this has been admitted by his manager to us in a careless moment.Or did they say struggle with one thing? or was it his boss admitting they struggle to accommodate you

What legal grounds has he got them on that they can risk ruining a good team? What a bizarre question - your organisation employs him to do the job, are you suggesting they are not allowed to employ who they wish?I thought if someone were moved to a post with equal pay/conditions etc there's no grounds for complaint? You thought wrong, people can complain about anything and if the move is seen as to a less prestigess role, and is for a discriminatory reason even with the same pay & conditions it is actionable There is another team he could go to on those terms, although I pity them if he does! And if he stays put, I see all of us really? people with 20 years pension will just up sticks?wanting out.

sangie595

lili2008 wrote: »

Fair enough. He might change. If he stays, I hope so of course.

But in the event that he does not, which is one of a range of possibilities, what then?

I am here for practical advice.

But you have had loads of practical advice. The problem is that it seems you don't want to hear the practical advice you've been given! Get on with your jobs. The grievance is over. Don't presuppose that someone is guilty of future actions they haven't actually committed. This is the employers responsibility, and the decision is down to them - not to you.

scd3scd4

As mentioned previously, the lack of newer members on the team is also a bit of a red flag for me....


Really......I have been in the same company for 20 years as an operator. We have 25,30, 35 years service. Very few people leave ever. That's what happens in decent jobs.


..............

You are going to have to give him a second chance. I think it would be healthy to clean the slate.


I know. However, knowing him as I do, the behaviour will continue. What then? Another grievance that goes round in the same circle?


If that's what it takes then yes. Sometimes it comes to that. There is a system to protect everyone. What is it you don't get. You do what you do and others do what they have to do.


It's because it's very specialised, as I have said. And having been through the situation, I can confidently say that all of us will consider transfers if he comes back. This isn't winning, it's professional integrity.

Most people say that but its often hot air. If you do.......then what. The company will just go on and he will still be there. Be very carful what you say. You will look around and no one will be behind you. Its bordering on mild blackmail.


He has been given a second chance. Get use to it. See what happens. If it continues then reuse the system. If not then move or leave.

scd3scd4

On a final note. I think you may have been mislead or misinformed. Just because the grievance was up held never meant a consequence that your boss had to move or even be sacked


He's discipline has gone on behind closed doors. He is not really saying he will not move. The company may have just given him the choice. Or they would have told him he has to move as part of the disciple and he would have no choice..

Ozzuk

You seem to be complaining before even giving him a chance - you have said 'he might change' which suggests the bullying isn't going on at the moment. You need to be careful your actions don't come across as bullying.

Put yourselves in his shoes, its hard to take over an established team. It's also fine for a supervisor not to know the job as well as you do - thats why he has you. He could be stressed trying to manage a team used to doing things their own way.

This doesn't excuse bad behaviour, but might give you food for thought and appreciate his position. Of course, he could be beyond help and not suitable for the role, but that isn't your decision to make.

Do your job. Be more professional than him. Support him in meetings, be polite and get your job done. If his poor actions continue then raise it formally again, otherwise concentrate on your job - are you all perhaps underperforming in a hope to get him out? Don't become the bully!